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Thread: Very interesting study

  1. #1

    Very interesting study

    The following thread is really very interesting indeed for anyone with an interest in deer. The data and graph on the first page contain a serious error which gets corrected as the thread advances and, clearly, it is a US study and for the most part unofficial. However, some folks doing professional management census work also contribute. I certainly found it well worth the effort to read the whole thread:

    http://www.chasingame.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15975


    For self catering accommodation on the Isle of Lewis please visit:
    http://www.7south.co.uk/




  2. #2
    Interesting stuff.

    Of course, for the longest running single site, continuous study of a wild deer population anywhere in the world, have a look

    HERE

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by matt_hooks View Post
    Interesting stuff.

    Of course, for the longest running single site, continuous study of a wild deer population anywhere in the world, have a look

    HERE

    Which is a waste of tax payers money .

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by widows son View Post
    Which is a waste of tax payers money .
    How?

    The study isn't directly funded from SNH, most of the funding comes from the research

  5. #5
    The Rum red deer study isn't funded by SNH (in fact, SNH appears to hate it), but it is funded by UK government research councils (and therefore indirectly by the tax payer).

    I work in the department where it's based, and many of the people on the project are close friends (and far and away some of the best scientists I've ever met). It's one of the most consistently productive and internationally recognised ecological field studies anywhere in the world. In terms of value for money, it produces extremely high quality science for a fraction of the cost of most other biomedical science. So I'm quite curious as to why it's regarded as a waste of money. I don't want to start an argument: it's very important to know what people think of the research and why.

    I should emphasise that it's not at all about hugging fluffy animals and Autumnwatch anthropomorphism: in general, it's interested in understanding how the population reacts to variation in social and ecological conditions, and in attempting to predict what happens when key variables are altered (from sex ratio and density to level of inbreeding and climate). All of which would seem to be of immense value to anyone with even a passing interest in sensible management...

  6. #6
    So bob was right Tax payers money. I for one can see many better uses for it were i live and manage deer.
    http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=gor...:11,s:60,i:330

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
    The Rum red deer study isn't funded by SNH (in fact, SNH appears to hate it), but it is funded by UK government research councils (and therefore indirectly by the tax payer).

    I work in the department where it's based, and many of the people on the project are close friends (and far and away some of the best scientists I've ever met). It's one of the most consistently productive and internationally recognised ecological field studies anywhere in the world. In terms of value for money, it produces extremely high quality science for a fraction of the cost of most other biomedical science. So I'm quite curious as to why it's regarded as a waste of money. I don't want to start an argument: it's very important to know what people think of the research and why.

    I should emphasise that it's not at all about hugging fluffy animals and Autumnwatch anthropomorphism: in general, it's interested in understanding how the population reacts to variation in social and ecological conditions, and in attempting to predict what happens when key variables are altered (from sex ratio and density to level of inbreeding and climate). All of which would seem to be of immense value to anyone with even a passing interest in sensible management...

    Mungo calm down to a boil, there no one is bringing you scientist friends into disrepute, the study has been going on for years ,to many years, it's a small island not mainland Scotland they know every deer on the place, there's only so much information you can reap from this ,but they've kept it running and running for years .(maybe the should do the same with the geese on the island tha cause problems every year .

    One thing you have said has rattled my cage biomedical mmmmm there's a uncharted territory ,if you ever come down with any disease you'll be well happy with the monies spent on the biomedical science ,now being a long term cancer suffer ,I'd quite happily give them what ever budget required to cure diseases such as cancer and a hundred other horrendous diseases ,which are far more valuable than the deer ecology and habitat densitiy and sex studies which have been carried out in this Island for years ,inbreeding deer have done this since the beginning of time ,what part of this can't the get .

    There wasting taxpayers money it is that simple no matter what you cover it in research grants or any other name taxpayer is putting his hand in his pocket .

  8. #8
    WS, not entirely correct. The Island might be small (well, if you call 40 square miles small) but the study area covers less than 1/4 of the island. The proportion of the deer population involved in the study is fairly small too, less than 1/3 of the island population.

    Research grants are issued for all sorts of things. Not all of them have a direct impact, or I should really say an OBVIOUS direct impact, on our lives, health and wellbeing, but they are nonetheless important.

    When the US were researching space, it seemed like a huge waste of money, and yet huge quantities of data, and a large number of technologies, have been developed through the research carried out.

    By your logic, all research funding should go purely to medical research? I have my share of health problems, and of course would like money to go in to researching their treatment and cure, but I can still see how money spent researching other things is important and necessary. It all adds to the sum total of human knowledge, and knowledge is power. We never know what useful information might come from studying these animals!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by matt_hooks View Post
    WS, not entirely correct. The Island might be small (well, if you call 40 square miles small) but the study area covers less than 1/4 of the island. The proportion of the deer population involved in the study is fairly small too, less than 1/3 of the island population.

    Research grants are issued for all sorts of things. Not all of them have a direct impact, or I should really say an OBVIOUS direct impact, on our lives, health and wellbeing, but they are nonetheless important.

    When the US were researching space, it seemed like a huge waste of money, and yet huge quantities of data, and a large number of technologies, have been developed through the research carried out.

    By your logic, all research funding should go purely to medical research? I have my share of health problems, and of course would like money to go in to researching their treatment and cure, but I can still see how money spent researching other things is important and necessary. It all adds to the sum total of human knowledge, and knowledge is power. We never know what useful information might come from studying these animals!
    I know the island extremely well I worked on in over 30 years ago for two and a half years ,ive been back over the years .

    The space race another joke and jolly for someone complete waste of time effort and money ,have you seen what were doing to this planet ,killing it slowly .

    Deer research mmmmm taken all this time to compile and collate just what, some dissertation for another page or three in the BDS deer mag, for a load of box files of what real importance these are island deer ,if it's all so clever and needful information just why is there not further research of the same study done on the other islands collating all the various factors, Jura ,mull ,Skye ,Harris and mainland Scotland and why has it taken so long within a confined space so small to carry it out you could do the same on a deer farm.

    You also mentioned in another post on here the longest continual study of deer in the world ,yes because no one has actually stopped and thought why, is this still running let this hit the news papers and see how it fairs with up to 4000 forces personnel losing the jobs countless other public sector workers still losing ther jobs, to cut back on public spending ,a shed load of infastructor problems which are still being sorted from the poor winter two years ago, all due to lack of funding and cut backs ,council tax rises ,fuel bills going mad, the list is endless but yet we have a study of deer which are being classed as pests in many areas ,which has well run its course .

    I for one would like to see my tax money being used to better use .

  10. #10
    Actually the deer project has produced well over 100 articles in international scientific journals and is routinely cited by everyone from the BBC to US Fish and Wildlife management policy. It's globally respected and highly influential. A little more than forgotten box files and a few dissertations...

    I agree that this sort of research should have lower priority than a great many other things (health, infrastructure etc). However, I think you might be surprised by just how cheap it is. 3 years of the deer project costs about the same as a week of work in a 'real' biotech lab. And it costs about the same as running a Challenger tank for about 3 days. In terms of productivity and influence, it's very good value for money.

    Really want to pick on some wasted tax payers money in Scotland?? Your targets are surely endless (Edinburgh trams, anyone?).

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