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Thread: does your ticket need conditioned for rogue dogs ?

  1. #1

    does your ticket need conditioned for rogue dogs ?

    i was at one of my farms last night , the farmer who doesnt shoot was telling me he had 2 calfs mauled by dog or dogs, he reported this to the local police station who told him he could shoot the dog if he witnessed it in the act , only problem is , the farmer doesnt shoot

    if he was to call me in to do it would i get into bother ?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Scots_stalker View Post
    i was at one of my farms last night , the farmer who doesnt shoot was telling me he had 2 calfs mauled by dog or dogs, he reported this to the local police station who told him he could shoot the dog if he witnessed it in the act , only problem is , the farmer doesnt shoot

    if he was to call me in to do it would i get into bother ?
    My ticket says something to the effect of.. 'or other quarry in the upkeep of an estate'

    However, I would rather let the RSPCA waste their money live catching it than risk popping someone's pet that has escaped.

  3. #3
    You are ok to use a shotgun, as quarry doesn't need to be listed on the cert.
    Trouble is, shotgun doesn't always result in a dead dog unless you're very close.

    Use of rifle could land you in trouble unless specified on ticket, or some words to that effect.

    Whatever you do, don't threaten to shoot someone's dog (e.g, "Catch that dog and get out of here, or I'll shoot it!"). Either go ahead and do it, or not. Threatening behaviour with a firearm will place you well and truly in the wrong.

    Get 'photos or video of dog doing damage first, if you can. Use phone camera.

    It's never nice shooting someone's dog, but really it's no different from shooting any other pest or vermin.

    You are ok to do it on behalf of the farmer, if he's specifically asked you to.

  4. #4
    Hi Guy's,

    Not sure of the law in Scotland but, down here we do not have an automatic legal right to "kill" dogs that are worrying livestock.

    But yes, use a shotgun as previously suggested unless you have a condition " For the protection of Animal safety" it reads something like that anyway. If it helps anybody here this is what the law says:

    Animals Act 1971

    Killing of or injury to dogs worrying livestock.(1)In any civil proceedings against a person (in this section referred to as the defendant) for killing or causing injury to a dog it shall be a defence to prove—

    (a)that the defendant acted for the protection of any livestock and was a person entitled to act for the protection of that livestock; and

    (b)that within forty-eight hours of the killing or injury notice thereof was given by the defendant to the officer in charge of a police station.

    (2)For the purposes of this section a person is entitled to act for the protection of any livestock if, and only if—

    (a)the livestock or the land on which it is belongs to him or to any person under whose express or implied authority he is acting; and

    (b)the circumstances are not such that liability for killing or causing injury to the livestock would be excluded by section 5(4) of this Act.

    (3)Subject to subsection (4) of this section, a person killing or causing injury to a dog shall be deemed for the purposes of this section to act for the protection of any livestock if, and only if, either—

    (a)the dog is worrying or is about to worry the livestock and there are no other reasonable means of ending or preventing the worrying; or

    (b)the dog has been worrying livestock, has not left the vicinity and is not under the control of any person and there are no practicable means of ascertaining to whom it belongs.
    (4)For the purposes of this section the condition stated in either of the paragraphs of the preceding subsection shall be deemed to have been satisfied if the defendant believed that it was satisfied and had reasonable ground for that belief.

    (5)For the purposes of this section—

    (a)an animal belongs to any person if he owns it or has it in his possession; and

    (b)land belongs to any person if he is the occupier thereof.
    Supplemental10 Application of certain enactments to liability under sections 2 to 4. For the purposes of the Fatal Accidents Acts 1846 to 1959, the M3Law Reform (Contributory Negligence) Act 1945 and [F1the Limitation Act 1980]any damage for which a person is liable under sections 2 to 4 of this Act shall be treated as due to his fault.

    A bit complicated but what could arise being a charge of criminal damage. Also the dog owner may subsequently take out a civil action against you.

    It certainly is not a nice or indeed pleasant thing to have to do the dog doing what might be coming natural to it.........................Owners, at least they can be held responsible for any losses sustained or incurred.

    Might shed a little light for somebody? But there are on here some good legal minds that will go much further than a lay person like myself I'm sure?

    Best regards to all,
    Mickey

  5. #5
    You would need your fac specifically conditioned, you would also have to be there at the time the dog was attacking the stock and you would be best to have the farmers authority/request in writing.

    Remember that if the owner kicks up a stink there is every chance that your authority to shoot the dog and your fac conditions will be looked into. Believe me some owners will create merry hell when their dog has been shot, I've been there.

  6. #6
    dont do it , no matter what your fac conditions state , you will have your guns confiscated and you will be taken to court , IF you can prove the animal was killing stock you will have to prove you didnt cause unnesecery suffering to the dog . Its a long drawn out process and you will be without your guns while it takes place . Never use a rifle if you must do it use a shotgun up close . Better to let the farmer deal with it . If he knows who own the dog/dogs let the police deal with it .

  7. #7
    Couple of points.

    My certificate clearly states that the firearms on it can be used for the protection of animals and humans from other animals. It clearly would allow me to shoot dogs attacking a calf.

    I agree that the dogs would have to be seen in the act and not simply in the same field as the injured calf after the injuries have been discovered.

    And lastly, I don't think it would matter if you used a shotgun or rifle. If the police decide to confiscate your weapon that was used because you are suspected of causing unnecessary suffering, they will take all you own regardless, pending the outcome of the enquiry.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jamross65 View Post
    And lastly, I don't think it would matter if you used a shotgun or rifle. If the police decide to confiscate your weapon that was used because you are suspected of causing unnecessary suffering, they will take all you own regardless, pending the outcome of the enquiry.
    +1

  9. #9
    some great points there fellas, thanks

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jamross65 View Post
    Couple of points.

    My certificate clearly states that the firearms on it can be used for the protection of animals and humans from other animals. It clearly would allow me to shoot dogs attacking a calf.

    I agree that the dogs would have to be seen in the act and not simply in the same field as the injured calf after the injuries have been discovered.

    And lastly, I don't think it would matter if you used a shotgun or rifle. If the police decide to confiscate your weapon that was used because you are suspected of causing unnecessary suffering, they will take all you own regardless, pending the outcome of the enquiry.
    Jam... my ticket also has such wording..... applying to the expanding ammunition but not to the actual rifles. Does your condition refer to the rifles aswell?

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