Variation Rimfire

I have aplied for a .22 rimfire, I see guns advertised .22 LR does this come under the licence.
Yes mate and if you really want to push your luck so does 22wmr technically, but your firearms dept may not agree with this, i had no problems in Wiltshire
Geordie
 
Stumpy, I'm a little bit worried that you have applied for a firearm and you don't know the different types. The .22LR will be what the FLD probably intended. It stands for "long rifle" and is the most popular metallic cartridge of them all.

In theory a .22WMR is a rimfire (well, by definition it is, it stands for Winchester Magnum Rimfire) but the WMR carries three times the energy (at least) of the LR, so is a totally different kettle of fish.

So, for your .22 rimfire slot, you can buy anything called a .22LR or .22 long rifle.
 
I dont agree Matt,
i shoot a WMR and it is definetely a rimfire, and i purchased it on a .22 rimfire authority.
When i enquired with my licensing office they said no problem because 22wmr is classed as a .22 rimfire.
However one local RFD would not sell me a 22WMR on that rimfire authority even though i told them to ring the office as they said it was okay, so another RFD obliged without a second muttering.
My licensing office states that with a .22 rimfire authority you can purchase any rifle/cartridge that is .22 and has rimfire ignition.

Ian.
 
Have just had a variation for a Sako quad in .22 LR and .22WMR barrels and a .22 LR RIFLE (CZ) have had to be specific on all three before variation sent out ?

Probably down to ammo speed ? doesn't really matter, only paperwork after all :cool:
 
I have all the rimfires for the Sako quad
they are all detailed in full
LR, WMR, M2, HMR

I would think the ability to buy a WMR on a ".22 rimfire" is extremely slack on behalf of the RFD and the issuing force.

Would they sell a .17 fireball to someone with .17 on their ticket?
Thats what mine said until I pointed it out!
 
I would think the ability to buy a WMR on a ".22 rimfire" is extremely slack on behalf of the RFD and the issuing force.

Would they sell a .17 fireball to someone with .17 on their ticket?
Thats what mine said until I pointed it out!

Whats slack about it bewsher, your argument falls because the same applies to 22LR, i could say the same as you and it would be equally valid.
"I would think the ability to buy a LR on a ".22 rimfire" is extremely slack on behalf of the RFD and the issuing force"
If anything i would say that the .22LR is even more of a slack idea as nowhere in its title does it mention that it is a rimfire.
Both the .22LR and .22WMR have rimfire ignition and as such are categorised as .22 Rimfires, the same goes for CB shorts, CB longs, 22 Short, 22 long and .22 shotshell they are all .22 rimfires.

Ian.
 
Whats slack about it bewsher, your argument falls because the same applies to 22LR, i could say the same as you and it would be equally valid.
"I would think the ability to buy a LR on a ".22 rimfire" is extremely slack on behalf of the RFD and the issuing force"
If anything i would say that the .22LR is even more of a slack idea as nowhere in its title does it mention that it is a rimfire.
Both the .22LR and .22WMR have rimfire ignition and as such are categorised as .22 Rimfires, the same goes for CB shorts, CB longs, 22 Short, 22 long and .22 shotshell they are all .22 rimfires.

Ian.

not really

.22lr can ONLY be a rimfire (The "Long Rifle" is the indicator as to case size as HMR or WMR is in the other sizes)
anything in a LR case (CB shorts, CB longs, 22 Short, 22 long and .22 shotshell) or smaller is generally regarded as a .22lr as they all derive from the same case (or similar) and unless someone can prove otherwise I am unaware of any rifle that is now chambered specifically for CB shorts or any other derivation of the .22lr case?
they all get fired from .22lr chambered rifles.

.22WMR is not the same case and requires a totally different chambering, the case is larger than the bullet diameter
.22LR has an oustide case diameter the same as the .224(.222 in some cases) bullet that is narrower below the crimp.


if it just said .22 with no case variant description it would be even slacker as it would by defailt include .22-250 etc etc .22 centrefires
 
Bewsher, you need to do some research my friend, CB shorts, long, 22 short and 22 long all have different case lengths then the .22LR, although they will chamber in a 22LR as does the stinger which has a longer case, but you still cant get away from the fact that 22 WMR, is a rimfire cartridge of .22 diametre and as such comes under the banner of .22 Rimfire, simples.

Ian
 
Ha, sadly no. I spend way to much time researching rimfire variants
The case length is irrelevant. Its the chamber you are restricted to.
show me a rifle chambered for CB shorts (or long, or any other .22lr variant) for that matter.
The whole evoluton of the .22lr variants from the CB Cap from the 1800's and using the same heeled bullet design is so that they could all be fired in the same chamber. Its the reason it is so popular.




If you are going to say all .22 "rimfires" are the same then on that basis in the eyes of the FLO a .338 Lap Mag would be the same a .338-08
a .50BMG the same as a .50-70 Government


The police don't (usually) issue rifle variations on CALIBRE, they do it on CASE description, for this reason......


otherwise no-one would have a case description on their FAC and everyone would buy whatever took their fancy in whatever calibre they had on the their ticket.......


but we will agree to disagree on this one and see how many RFD's will sell the OP a WMR when he presents his FAC with .22 "rimfire"
 
Bewsh. The licence form actually asks for caliber. Not case, not chambering, not ignition method but caliber.

I know some areas that say that .22 rimfire will allow the purchase of any rimfire, others say it means only LR (despite argument to the contrary)

Again it's an example of the mess that is our licensing system.

My cert specifies .22 long rifle and .22 WMR (I have both) which kind of makes sense. The WMR runs at three times the energy of the LR. Of course, given the basics (safe to possess under any circumstances) they shouldn't be trying to restrict what we can hold anyway, but therein lies a whole other argument!
 
If you are going to say all .22 "rimfires" are the same then on that basis in the eyes of the FLO a .338 Lap Mag would be the same a .338-08
a .50BMG the same as a .50-70 Government

I never said that all 22 rimfires are the same, more like they are all .22 rimfires, the same as 222, 223, 22-250 etc are all .224 centrefires.
As for case designation your FAC only asks for calibre but as you know the police insist and so do most RFDs of entering the case designation on your FAC
I currently have a 257 Improved rifle, the authority for which was "257 cal bolt action rifle" with that authoriyt i could have purchased several rifles having the cartridge designation include 257 in its title.
The same goes when i had a "6mm bolt action rifle" i originally wanted a 6mm Rem but purchased a 243 on that authority having checked with my licensing office first.
However all the calibres are recorded as their cartridge designation on my FAC.

Ian.
 
I have a slot for ".22" free on my FAC. When i first applied i requested a 22lr but the "lr" or "Rimfire" is not on the FAC just the .22
So does this mean i could either go for the rimmies eg 22lr, 22wmr, or choose any of the 22 centerfires eg 22 hornet, 222, 223, 22-250?
I guess the 222, 223, 22-250 are probably pushing my luck but realistically would a RFD sell me my choice of LR, WMR or Hornet under the .22 slot?

Mick
 
Where do you draw the line?

As you point out, all of those calibers are classified as .22, so the answer should be yes. However I doubt very much an RFD would sell you a centrefire rifle under that authorisation. They would definitely sell you an LR, and depending on the RFD possibly a WMR, I doubt anything bigger.

The police couldn't complain if you managed to persuade an RFD to sell you a .22CF on that authorisation. Your ticket says .22, and a 22-250 IS a .22, no doubt about it.

The only issue you might have is if you specified the cartridge on your application. If you asked for .22LR then they will probably say you are limited to that.
 
Bewsh. The licence form actually asks for caliber. Not case, not chambering, not ignition method but caliber.


I know some areas that say that .22 rimfire will allow the purchase of any rimfire, others say it means only LR (despite argument to the contrary)


Again it's an example of the mess that is our licensing system.


My cert specifies .22 long rifle and .22 WMR (I have both) which kind of makes sense. The WMR runs at three times the energy of the LR. Of course, given the basics (safe to possess under any circumstances) they shouldn't be trying to restrict what we can hold anyway, but therein lies a whole other argument!




totally agree, and that was my original point (rather than getting into a p1ssing contest over what means what!)
I have 22 entries on my FAC and not one has ever had a "calibre" detailed.
They are all Case variations
That is over 25 years in 3 regions (Northumberland, Cambridgeshire and L&B)

If you have 6mm down as a rifle and buy a .243 does that also mean that you can waltz in to your local RFD and buy some 6mm BR ammunition? or worse, you go in for .243 and come out with 6x47 because the RFD misread it, instantly putting you in breach of your FAC because you do not have authority.

MickeyD's situation is worse than the OP's as he has actually been granted a calibre with no specific case with a possible MV range from 950fp/s to 4500fps! something that even requires special certification to use at a range.



Either leave it completely open to our discretion what rifle we want for deer stalking and just say "deer stalking calibre" or at least try to be consistent!!
 
If you have 6mm down as a rifle and buy a .243 does that also mean that you can waltz in to your local RFD and buy some 6mm BR ammunition?

Norman Clark says no, he says that ammo designation is decided by what chambering of rifle you buy, ie. i have a 270 authority with which i buy a 270WSM and even though i have the same "270" ammo authority he says i can only buy 270 WSM and not 270win or 270 Weatherby i disagreed with him.
My situation was the other way round i had a 243 rifle on a 6mm authority including a 6mm ammo authority which technically meant i could not buy any ammo, i asked my licensing office about this and whether i should sent my licence in for variation and they said no because 243 is a 6mm calibre and i am okay to hold and buy.
They also said if i have any problems buying 243 ammo, to ring them up and they would talk to the RFD in question, however it never became a problem because i handloaded from the start.
My licensing office also gave me authority for a .300 cal bolt action rifle with which i bought a 300WSM but i could have bought 300 Win mag, 300 RUM, 300 Weatherby and a whole lot more with the.300 designation.

Ian.
 
I asked this exact same question in another thread, I have a spare slot for another ".22RF" + mod so I trotted down to my local RFD today to ask about getting a WMR as I already have a few .22lr rifles and want something with more range but not as much poke as the 6.5x55.. I was told he wouldn't sell me a WMR unless it was listed on my ticket as such?

Why doesn't the FLO list it as .22lr instead of .22rf if that is what they mean?
 
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