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Thread: Opinions please - Genetics in Deer

  1. #1

    Opinions please - Genetics in Deer

    Genetics in deer
    Now here is a picture of three deer shot in a similar place and carrying i believe the same genes what do you think is it or is it just coincidence



  2. #2

    Genetics without doubt play a part in this sort of trait in antler development and given the close proximity to each other when they were shot must surely support that thought. I have some good examples of similar abnormal growth patterns in sika stags.

    However, I made the assumption when posting on the SD before that the trait would have been passed on by the stag. I think it was stag1933 on here that pointed out it could just as easily been a hind that carries the gene(s) that produce this sort of thing. Interesting point...

  3. #3
    I think its definetly genetics. As jamross has said, I have also known Sika stags, Red stags and Roe bucks to carry this trait that can be measured over the years, all usually from a small localised area. To go further into genetics there are some good contacts at Edinburgh University that has done alot of work in this area. Very interesting to see them lined up like that.

  4. #4
    Can this not also then raise the question that a doe may be able to throw young bucks of exceptional quality regardless of the quality of the sire, or is the potential size of antlers in bucks normally dictated by the male? Because if they can then it throws all ideas about management out the window and we should just be shooting what we see. I cannot believe that quality does are the only deciding factor in throwing more quality does only and not have a say in the bucks they produce also. All other factors needed to produce good heads like feed and minerals aside obviously...

  5. #5
    I would think this is definitely a genetic occurrence. Work has been done on whitetail deer in America with similar divergent antler development and back crosses were made which increased the incidence,the conclusions were made that genetics played a major part involving both sexes. I had a pm with photos with a common antler architectural abnormality in shall we say male animals so as not to identify the species.Permission was not given to post on the forum.
    Blood vessels to the velvet originate from the common carotid artery and are carried up the velvet from the pedicle so that they don't actually branch when they reach a position of the tine.Their position is already predetermined. Glyn1's brilliant photos of his stag's antler growth illustrates this point beautifully.

  6. #6
    I think you raise a very valid point re management. A while back a mate had a very middle of the road GSD bitch. She would have attained last place at show but she would constantly produce very good quality pups after being mate to a particular dog. A good combination of genes. The type of areas that 6p stalks on probably do not have a huge influx of new blood/genes and I would suspect that there is opportunity for patterns to develop through close breeding.

  7. #7
    In answer to jamross65's query, there is ongoing work in Spain on Red deer where the quality and quantity of the hinds' milk not only has a marked beneficial effect on the first year growth of male calf antlers but also has a carry on effect in subsequent years. In New Zealand velvet harvesting are now returning yields of in excess of 9 kgs ( that is +/- 2 thirds of expected growth ) Improving feed will obviously improve stock.

  8. #8

    Genetics without doubt play a part in this sort of trait in antler development and given the close proximity to each other when they were shot must surely support that thought. I have some good examples of similar abnormal growth patterns in sika stags.

    Without a doubt genetics are involved , and yes it could be carried by the female, we spend time deliberating which males should be kept as future breeding stock, unfortunately all we can do with females is young or old healthy or unhealthy, hardly scientific.

  9. #9
    I am not an expert in genetics, but why would doe's genes carry information about buck's antlers? Is it not more likely that (as in human X and Y chromosomes) male chromosome Y be more likely to carry info about antlers? Some of the answers above suggest it is 50:50 doe's to buck's genes... I am not convinced...

  10. #10
    I look for quality in the females as i do the males. Females to be excluded from the cull would be young to middle age with two very healthy kids and also the look of health through out no obvious signs of any visible faults. Ones to be culled thin females with no kids young females with only one kid and older females with one or no kids. Males are easier because they will push away the crap and a good male just stands out a mile but once they have been in the area for two ruts i try and remove them and see what comes in.

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