Leg shots; I cannot believe it.

barongcw

Well-Known Member
One of my German friends send me Uwe Tabel's "Auf der Scweissfaehrte" (On the tracking trail) a book written not for HS and BHS owners but for the German hunter with a (deer)dog as opposed to a scenthound.

Well written, logical, well presented and full of top class advice, excellent pictures.

I wish somebody would persuade the BDS to translate it.

But going through it I cannot resist quote the special note on page 113.

"Leg shots on roe.

There are still people who believe that after a few hours a roe gets used to its broken leg and is thus more difficult to find. That is simply nonsense.
On the contrary. The risk of an unsuccesful search immediately after a shot is extremely high".

Would this evidence persuade some people in this country?
 
Its always risky assuming anything - every deer is a separate case. But it is useful to take overall view in terms of weighing up a strategy. Sometimes we can only do what we believe to be best at the time - experience obviously helps there.

In general a pure leg shot would indicate a hard recovery. If a suitable dog is to hand and the circumstance right, it is one of the times I would consider letting the dog 'go' straight away.

Two examples to hopefully more directly answer the question - and show how you just never know -

1. Client took a front leg on a Roe Buck from a High Seat over area of clear fell. Saw leg swinging as it ran for cover - no chance second shot.

Immediately called colleague on phone to come over with his dog - a fantastic Lab in whom I had near total confidence. Stayed in highseat to avoid disturbance.

About ten minutes later I saw a Buck emerge from the tree line - about 250 metres. Through the binoculars I was near certain it was 'our' buck. But the animal was completely relaxed and feeding normally. Grass prevented good view of the leg. Decision whether to shoot was made for me as the track colleague chose ran down side of same trees and I saw his truck approaching. No way going to shoot.

As the Buck heard the truck it turned back into the woods - it was the leg shot buck!

Within ten minutes the lab had done his stuff and buck was secured. Front left leg was shattered just below knee and lower leg hanging by skin.

2. Out with client - who my colleagues called 'Jammy B....d'. Nice guy. Saw Roe Buck across side of a lochan. Shot taken and heard a loud crack come back. Watched animal run through some stunted larch and out of sight. No further sign after five minutes.

Trusted client - so left in position whilst I brought truck up, then slowly approached shot site. Found few drops of blood, bone fragment and hair with skin. On hands and knees plotted course and found odd drops of blood. Client opens up ' are you going to follow a blood trail'? - YES ( Mr Grumpy ) 'Are you going to follow it all the way to the deer'? - THATS THE PLAN - even more grumpy at stupid questions. Still failing to pick up on client's tone - ' Well shall I just go and stand by it until you get there'? EH?

Look up and client pointing at one very dead buck - on its back, three and a half legs in the air - 30 metres behind where it was standing - in first line of plough!

The only bullet mark on it was a right front leg strike just above elbow. No body hit. Animal stone dead. Hence why we all call him 'Jammy B...d'!

Think safest answer for most deer questions is - sometimes they do and sometimes they don't!
 
Baron you see leg shoot or leg injuries are common and i my self believe you should not always believe what you read and there is no substitute to real life .
Deer with broken bones will initially go down and should be shot again or if you have a good dog (that will take hold) He will pull it down very quick otherwise you could be leaving an animal to suffer for long periods. Tell the chap to give me a phone baron and i will put him straight on the matter. ;)
 
I'm sorry to say I understand neither what the quoted passage means nor whether I am supposed to think it is sensible.

Does it mean that a search immediately after the shot is likely to be unsuccessful, and that therefore one would be better waithing a few hours;

because the idea that the roe gets used to the broken leg after a few hours and is therefore likely to have frollicked away if the search is delayed is mistaken?
 
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. Tell the chap to give me a phone baron and i will put him straight on the matter. ;)

Now that would be a conversation where I would like to be a fly on the wall!

But I am dreaming because I guess his scottish is not too good and I seem te remember that you once posted that your German was not either!
 
Mr Table, more than 50 years experience, maintains you should let a deer with a legwound settle rather than chasing it straight away with your dog.
If you do the latter it is likely to go a long way.
 
6 Pointer - just great minds? :cool:

As both you and 6 pointer have a lot of practice the question to ask is probably the following:

With your method of immediately searching after a legshot have you always got your deer or if not how many per 100 have you not been able to get?
 
Now now Baron the question is this dose an animal suffer if left and will it stiffen up enough to catch if left my answer is no. Here are a couple of picture of deer that were left after they lost the use of limbs. I could go on as i do work very close to the roads and the railways.
ps both are now thankfully dead.

Page Eight and twelve all deer accounted for but could have been soon had we had the opertunity.

http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/content.php/162-Guide-to-Controlling-Urban-Deer#comments_start
PS THE DEER WITH NO BACK LEGS WAS HIT WITH A TRAIN WEEKS EARLIER WHAT SUFFERING DID THAT ANIMAL GO THROUGH.

I SHOOT AROUND 80 DEER A YEAR AND OUT OF THAT NUMBER I WOULD SAY THERE WILL ONLY BE ONE OR TWO LEG SHOT DEER MAINLY BY CLIENTS. SO LETS NOT GET ITO THE HUNDREDS BECAUSE ANY ONE THAT IS LEG SHOOTING DEER IN THE HUNDREDS SHOULD NOT BE HOLDING AN FAC.
 
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I tend to,note tend,low leg,shoot again if possible if not,straight in with dog,if only 1 leg been hit,if 2legs hit leave it.
Now high leg where the majority of leg shots will occur,shoot first if possible,if not leave in peace,1 or 2 legs hit,I've recovered a fair old few leg shot beasts and they can be a nightmare depending on where on leg theyve been hit.
 
Sorry George but Baron wanted your average recovered per hundred ??:rofl:
Now that was a question it demands and answer ;)
 
My 'method' is to assess every situation and make a decision based on the circumstances at the time - I believe 'reactions to shot' type information can be useful, but I'm with Capt. Barbosa ' not so much a code as guidelines'!

The only beast I have ever directly lost was a leg shot, my mistake was direct follow up - relocation to a better view would have been the wiser choice - I learned from it - in many ways.

Now if I am convinced of a leg hit and a suitable dog - ie big enough and switched on - is to hand, then I'd let the dog go on it. But only if certain safe for dog - ie no roads etc.

Taking things on a 'out of 100' etc type basis, 99/100 I would give an animal time to settle. Statistically - all else being equal - that will most likely result in recovery; if its going to happen.

But experience with clients and fellow stalkers is that the leg shot animal tends to be the hardest to recover and presents the least chance.

That I have only lost one animal is down to - good luck, being pedantic, perseverance, being prepared to enforce my decision on clients, having and having access to some fantastic dogs and knowing some very good stalkers and did I mention good luck?

I believe the hunter that waits 10/15 minutes will ultimately make more successful recoveries than the one who immediately follows up in every case. If the follow up is then conducted well.

Reread and retyped half a dozen times - and still reads too pridefully :oops: Thats not my intention or the reality at all. I goof lots and have had many follow ups to do - both my bad and for others. I work very hard to do right by the animal, but ultimately do believe I have been exceptionally lucky. I hope read in spirit intended.

Hopefully will figure out some better way to put it eventually.
 
Sorry George but Baron wanted your average recovered per hundred ??:rofl:
Now that was a question it demands and answer ;)
Put money on it being better than yours or Morays if your going blindly in with every beast leg shot!:stir::rofl:
I'd put it at approx 90-95%
This is what Baron is trying to achieve
Education!
Not every leg shot beast should be followed immediately most as you'll see from my last post,are better left to stiffen,note most;)
 
My 'method' is to assess every situation and make a decision based on the circumstances at the time - I believe 'reactions to shot' type information can be useful, but I'm with Capt. Barbosa ' not so much a code as guidelines'!

The only beast I have ever directly lost was a leg shot, my mistake was direct follow up - relocation to a better view would have been the wiser choice - I learned from it - in many ways.

Now if I am convinced of a leg hit and a suitable dog - ie big enough and switched on - is to hand, then I'd let the dog go on it. But only if certain safe for dog - ie no roads etc.
Taking things on a 'out of 100' etc type basis, 99/100 I would give an animal time to settle. Statistically - all else being equal - that will most likely result in recovery; if its going to happen.

But experience with clients and fellow stalkers is that the leg shot animal tends to be the hardest to recover and presents the least chance.

That I have only lost one animal is down to - good luck, being pedantic, perseverance, being prepared to enforce my decision on clients, having and having access to some fantastic dogs and knowing some very good stalkers and did I mention good luck?

I believe the hunter that waits 10/15 minutes will ultimately make more successful recoveries than the one who immediately follows up in every case. If the follow up is then conducted well.

Reread and retyped half a dozen times - and still reads too pridefully :oops: Thats not my intention or the reality at all. I goof lots and have had many follow ups to do - both my bad and for others. I work very hard to do right by the animal, but ultimately do believe I have been exceptionally lucky. I hope read in spirit intended.

Hopefully will figure out some better way to put it eventually.
I thought mine was a high recovery rate;)
Note as well you are advocating beast left to settle,what is Baron saying?
Depends on higher or lower leg wound!
I'd say 10-15 minutes is not long enough but if it works for you fine.
The worst animal to recover is a jaw shot beast not leg,if left to stiffen right up long enough then they become easier for the dog and handler;)
 
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Give them a good hour to stiffen up, then send in a GWP to rectify your mistake - none of these sissy sent hound types :rofl:
 
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none of these sissy sent hound types :rofl:

Have I our permission to use this quote?

It will go next to "super trendy expensive german scent hound with all its europeanesque elitism!" in my book.

It might come a surprise for you to read that if an HS bites anybody bar his handler during a trial when the Hound is next to the deer he found that is regarded as positive by the judges.

Only when he bites his own handler are points deducted.

Not quite what I would call "sissy scent hound types"
 
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