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Thread: Rudi on Scenthounds

  1. #1

    Rudi on Scenthounds

    Rudi van Kets who as some of you know is the President ofthe Flemish Tracking Society with some 15 years experience has asked me totranslate the following article he wrote in Dutch.
    “For a number of months there has been a discussion of theSD about HS and BMH with or without proper papers.
    My personal view is as follows:
    Dogs have served for hundreds of years and each breed has nowits own characteristics and is bred for one purpose.
    During this time breed standards have developed that oneshould respect.
    Societies have been created to protect this standard, a kindof heritage. These Societies were the beginning of the breed and developed the characteristicfor that breed. A pointer for pointing, a retriever for retrieving an HS fortracking. As simple as that.
    Criteria were developed which must be adhered to. Many stillexist so we must keep these. Regrettably many do not follow these criteria.
    To get to the point on scenthounds. The sudden entry ofthese hounds has created a quite a stir, the mean reason being that people didnot know about the breed and how it is used. We on the continent hunt in adifferent way and some handle some dog breeds differently.
    Hence the confusion. Scenthounds especially the BMH and HSare as I mentioned earlier a heritage that not only should be protected butthey should also be used in the way that was intended by our predecessors.
    But there are people who want to have these hounds withoutrespecting these values. It is in order to protect against these kinds ofpeople that the breed societies are so protective.
    It are mainly people whose prime consideration is cash, hardcash. They are not concerned with the standards or values. Not the dogs faultbut those of the greedy breeders. There are plenty of examples.
    I did not mince my words. Education can contribute a lot andrespect for those that assist in maintaining the standards as well as not beingswayed by people who drive on the other side of the road. That is theirproblem.
    I am of the opinion that people who do their bit to maintainthe standards deserve respect. But I notice it is different. Many seem to thinkthey can do without knowledge or study. (I have my opinions do not confuse mewith the facts).
    The market reacts to this lack of knowledge and offersHounds that are not the required standard.
    I myself had to wait 3 years for my first hound and it paidoff. I used that time to go to courses and was prepared when the hound came.
    I have therefore decided not to enter into discussions withthose that are on fishing trips. That is not the way to transfer knowledge.
    The same for organisations like the Federation Canina, acopy that intends to be so real as to confuse people and make them fall into thetrap.
    Experience has taught me that the aim for perfection andhonesty towards the breed can create great friendships. It is these friendshipscombined with working together that made tracking such a joy.”

  2. #2
    You can lead horses to water but we can't make them drinkmy friends.
    Then again what do we know?
    There are differences but people,me thinks,do not understand that protection of the integrity of these breeds is to be upheld at all times.Or is it that people don't care they get a internationally renowned dog,one to be cherished,respected and worthy of recognition!
    A dog is not a dog every time someone purchases a pup,these scenthounds there are major differences!!

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  3. #3
    Of course the integrity of the scent hounds should be up held as should the integrity of all working dogs. I for one would want a dog with all the correct papers no matter what breed I was buying.
    But it seems that we are not aloud to ask questions about the different FCI ’s . How can we understand if we are not given the why’s and wherefores about them. We are just told that one is right and the other is so wrong. Now I’m sure this is correct but we only get to hear one side of the story. Any one who has a different view is shot down in flames. The same when it comes to training or dares to want to train a Labrador or Hpr
    So many threads are about HS: how many are in the UK? What percentage of stalkers need one.
    We are rapidly losing sight of what’s important in the world of dogs for deer for 99% of the stalkers in the UK.
    Now I have great respect for Rudi and yes i have met and talked at length with him. But i would like to hear other peoples views no matter what Country or shooting, dog society they belong to. Much as i admire the scent hounds, and yes i have one myself the world do's not revolve around them.

  4. #4
    Jagare go onto FCI's website.As you say correct papers.
    Or google FCI.Then try to find FCaninaI?!?
    As for training methods,more than one way to skin a cat.Easy ways have been found by experienced guys
    I have labs trained to deer,hot/cold tracks,so shoot no one down in flames regarding training their dog
    Nobody says the world revolves around scenthounds.

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  5. #5
    Quite right Alan, there is room for all, and the choice is for people to make up their own minds as to what they need or want, and not to be told this is how it must be.

    John

    Quote Originally Posted by Jagare View Post
    Of course the integrity of the scent hounds should be up held as should the integrity of all working dogs. I for one would want a dog with all the correct papers no matter what breed I was buying.
    But it seems that we are not aloud to ask questions about the different FCI ’s . How can we understand if we are not given the why’s and wherefores about them. We are just told that one is right and the other is so wrong. Now I’m sure this is correct but we only get to hear one side of the story. Any one who has a different view is shot down in flames. The same when it comes to training or dares to want to train a Labrador or Hpr
    So many threads are about HS: how many are in the UK? What percentage of stalkers need one.
    We are rapidly losing sight of what’s important in the world of dogs for deer for 99% of the stalkers in the UK.
    Now I have great respect for Rudi and yes i have met and talked at length with him. But i would like to hear other peoples views no matter what Country or shooting, dog society they belong to. Much as i admire the scent hounds, and yes i have one myself the world do's not revolve around them.
    A clever man knows his strengths, a wise man knows his weaknesses

  6. #6
    Stalker A has been stalking since he was a young lad 50 years ago. He has never done his DSC1, on average he shoots 200 deer a year.

    Stalker B has been stalking 6 months, he passed his DSC1 without even seeing a deer, he passed his DSC 2 after he shot 6 deer.

    Which is the more qualified to take you out on a stalk??

    The reason why I ask this, is a friend of mine has a dog (fair enough not a HS) that has never lost a deer, he shoots 200+ a year. His dog is a mutt and has zero paper work.

    Paperwork is not everything.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by eggy s View Post
    Stalker A has been stalking since he was a young lad 50 years ago. He has never done his DSC1, on average he shoots 200 deer a year.

    Stalker B has been stalking 6 months, he passed his DSC1 without even seeing a deer, he passed his DSC 2 after he shot 6 deer.

    Which is the more qualified to take you out on a stalk??

    The reason why I ask this, is a friend of mine has a dog (fair enough not a HS) that has never lost a deer, he shoots 200+ a year. His dog is a mutt and has zero paper work.

    Paperwork is not everything.
    You are an evil man Eggy

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by eggy s View Post
    Stalker A has been stalking since he was a young lad 50 years ago. He has never done his DSC1, on average he shoots 200 deer a year.

    Stalker B has been stalking 6 months, he passed his DSC1 without even seeing a deer, he passed his DSC 2 after he shot 6 deer.

    Which is the more qualified to take you out on a stalk??

    The reason why I ask this, is a friend of mine has a dog (fair enough not a HS) that has never lost a deer, he shoots 200+ a year. His dog is a mutt and has zero paper work.

    Paperwork is not everything.
    Couldn't agree more!

    Even if you were to buy one of these 'black market' pups, they still have noses. If a chihuahua can find a deer, I'm sure one of these dogs can! Surely?

    Personally I think the breed that you're protecting is or is going to be a strain of the breed.
    Undoubtably a far superior strain, but a strain nonetheless.

    I can see why enthusiasts of the breed would want to stop this from happening, but that's what people do, they take something good and f**k it up!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
    You are an evil man Eggy
    I know right.

    But its the same principle

  10. #10
    There has been much writing on this subject and if you think about it, there's very little to discuss when logical sense is used. I am in spaniels and trained a lot of them. If I ever change breed it will almost sure be a tracking dog, probably a Dachsbracke , but I keep every option open.
    On average with dogs as with children you have to train them , to read , to write, etc..... The same with dogs, very few are born with everything needed. The only way to compare them and try to select the best breeding material is by comparing them, in almost the same conditions. Exams for children , field trials or tests for dogs. To make uniform conditions there is a need for certain rules to compare in about the same circumstances. The FCI is an organistion who makes an effort to do this. Not everything they do is good and their effort to keep their monopoly is strong. I work along FCI rules,but I think that in the coming years their monopoly will come to an end.
    They only accept one organisation per country and this will be difficult to maintain. But thats not the subject. Up to now it's the only system that is exepted worldwide.
    I saw John's ( Yorkshiredeerstalking) reply and witnessed his dog on a short youtubeclip. Nice work on which I already thought congratulating him before. I've had spaniels that almost did everything natural. Very pleasant , but in general these are the exceptions. Dogs to breed from. The perfect brains and natural ability. Thats what we all want. As long as not all dogs are born this way, continue training , selecting and working your dogs. That's about the only solution we have.
    As said before by somebody else. There's a huge diffrence in tracking a stone dead annimal 50/100 metres from the place he's shot or tracking a lightly wounded annimal over 3/4/5 miles in the worst weather conditions and maybe still have to bay the annimal to be killed.
    That's were the very well trained dog with great natural ability will outshine any other.

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