Define 'Cross-Contamination'????

Monkey Spanker

Well-Known Member
Ok, here’s a scenario…..
I’ve just shot two deer cleanly and humanely and proceed with the grallochs. Having done the first one which was let’s say a clean neckshot, I’ve inspected the entire animal and contents as required and I’m happy that all is well and there is no sign of disease or ‘contamination’. There is a small amount of blood on my knife and gloves which I decide not to clean or change before proceeding with thenext animal!!!:eek:
The next animal is also deemed as fit for the food chain despite being gralloched with a ‘used’ knife and gloves. (Notice I haven’t used the word contaminated as neither deer has been classed as such!)
The deer are then placed in the same carcass tray touching each other. They are then hung in the same chiller together, possibly touching.Then the game dealer collects and throws them in the van together. The butcher chops them up on the same board and then puts pieces of each animal into the same sausages and pies!
Has ‘cross contamination’ occurred at any stage???:confused:
MS
 
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To be honest with you as much as you may not like the answer but yes in nearly every way possible every thing that they touch can be classed as cross contamination from the gloves and knife right through to the board they where cut up on! From what i understand cross contamination Is where the carcuss touchs anything that it can pick up traces of any sort of substance from if that makes sense?

Hope my ramberlings have help in some way
adrian
 
Is this of any help?
Generally speaking, Cross Contamination occurs when one food item (usually an uncooked and therefore contaminated item ) somehow comes into contact with another food item and pathogenic bacteria are transferred (usually an item which requires no further cooking e.g. cooked meat or fish salad or raw vegetables)
The cross contamination may occur in several ways :-
By use of the same chopping board or knife for butchering or preparing or by blood or juices from an uncooked product dripping onto a cooked item
Environmental Health Officers tell we food handlers that all uncooked meat carries bacteria which may be harmful if eaten.
Sorry if i have muddied the water!
Ed
 
So.... from first reply, everything is cross contaminated and therefore not fit for the food chain.

Second reply states that anything uncooked is contaminated anyway so as long as we cook it properly I don't need to bother changing my gloves!
Further to my first question..... Is blood a contaminant?:confused:
 
what ever you shoot the carcass is contaminated as soon as the bullet strikes !

unless your are going to disinfect and sanitise you barrel after every stalk i wouldnt worry about it
 
So.... from first reply, everything is cross contaminated and therefore not fit for the food chain.

Second reply states that anything uncooked is contaminated anyway so as long as we cook it properly I don't need to bother changing my gloves!
Further to my first question..... Is blood a contaminant?:confused:

More to the point, is the cross "contamination" reasonably identifiable, by you, as a public health issue or not?

If the "contaminants" wot gets crossed are "harmless" i.e. not a public health issue perhaps/arguably that is inconsequential. However, if pathogens or other "contaminants" from a carcase which is only fit to be rejected are spread to another which would otherwise be "acceptable", into the food chain, then you might have a problem. Do you have any concerns of this possibilty, in this instance? ... As you certainly give no indication of such.
 
More to the point, is the cross "contamination" reasonably identifiable, by you, as a public health issue or not?

If the "contaminants" wot gets crossed are "harmless" i.e. not a public health issue perhaps/arguably that is inconsequential. However, if pathogens or other "contaminants" from a carcase which is only fit to be rejected are spread to another which would otherwise be "acceptable", into the food chain, then you might have a problem. Do you have any concerns of this possibilty, in this instance? ... As you certainly give no indication of such.

Tamus, the question was purely hypothetical and designed to raise debate on what is in my opinion a very 'grey area'! My scenario features two perfectly healthy animals. Best practice guidelines insist that we change our gloves and clean our tools between grallochs but if a DSC2 candidate chose not to for instance in a similar situation to above, would it be acceptable? If neither animal is deemed as contaminated (and we sign a game tag declaration to this effect) has wrong been done, considering they may end up in the same batch of sausages anyway?
 
Well i guess its down to personal judgement alot of of things are a contamant but to what is a exeptable level is down to you to make up your own mind as a trained hunter as your name goes on the ticket
 
I'm no expert on harmful/non-harmful bacteria but I do know how to get a carcass into the food chain following best practice. I don't think you have to have an in depth knowledge of the scientific ins and outs of cross contamination in order to do this.

If a basic definition is - to cause the carcass to come into contact with something that would make it a risk to health and/or unfit for consumption - then you are just doing all you can to avoid this with a basic knowledge of what could cause it.

I think you only learn how to do a clean gralloch with experience and then you pick up tips along the way that also help in making a clean job of it.

How can blood be a contaminant unless it has been sat around? If you have spilt some of the gut inside the carcass then any blood in the chest cavity can carry it and spread it around???

As for knives. Again, common sense surley? you wouldn't open up the stomach of carcass 1 with your knife and then start the gralloch on carcass 2 without cleaning it would you? Antibacterial wipes are readily available and easily carried.
 
There are lots of things you are not supposed to do, dragging a carcass through a field for example.

The example MS describes is a very typical scenario and although not exactly best practise, it is probably how 90% of venison enters the food chain. Let's face it, who disinfects their knife after each gralloch?...who carries a carcass home, then disinfects the load liner before returning to collect another carcass?

This is the reality....
scotland_2009_062.jpg
 
In my opinion this seemed to be a rhetorical question by the op as he seemed to know the answer before hand...in a game butchery that i worked in the ministry vets came to stamp the carcases after skining and all deer were skinned with the same knife (by me), during the butchering the knife was always placed in the sterilizer between joints, never just placed on the slab....that was my ethics, as I would expect the same courtesy from my local butcher...

even though there has never been a case of food poisoning from eating wild venison ,that I have ever heard of, or that of eating any game from pheasants to snipe...
 
For the purposes of level 2 no it's not acceptable, cross contamination has occurred and there is no reason for it other than laziness, change your gloves and clean your equipment between carcasses and potentially also during the processing of one carcass if you move from working on the outside to the inside(I know it's hypothetical). I think the point that has been missed is that in the declaration you are declaring you've observed no abnormalities, you can't observe bacteria which is what cross contamination is concerned with. What if an un-noticed amount of stomach content was on the knife from the 'clean' neck shot and then transferred all over the next carcass? Possible e-coli transmitted but nothing to do with the hunters declaration. Cross contamination is avoided by best practice, the declaration has nothing to do with it, we are not declaring them as contaminated or not, just that we observed no abnormalities and although bacteria cannot be observed in the field their spread can be reduced as much as possible.
 
Speaking as someone who just had to refresh the Meat Hygeine part of my DSC1 I can tell to you that this would be unacceptable on DSC2 standard grullochs.

Not arguing the right or wrong. Just a statement of fact.
 
The simple answer is that we as deer stalkers do not have the facility to test for diseases or other organisms that may, or may not show up upon a field examination.Blood borne diseases, E-Coli etc etc.... So to treat every animal as an individual is good practice.
 
it's easy to find fault in some of the best practice guidance and i disagree with some advice proferred as" best practice" but i still think it is a really good publication for professional and recreational stalkers alike. The biggest initial contaminant of a carcass is the air that is sucked in or through with the bullet which draws any external air or body surface contamination into the tissues, the next source is the knife and stalkers hands which should both be kept clean and the knife work should be kept to a minimum so as not to expose a larger surface area to contamination than needs be.
I would say yes you should be disinfecting your roe box or pick-up bed every time and change knives. It is difficult if not impossible to eradicate all possible chances of cross contamination but you should be confident that your system for handling carcasses intended to enter the food chain is as clean and hygenic as you can make it
 
In my opinion this seemed to be a rhetorical question by the op as he seemed to know the answer before hand......
You are right to a certain extent, as I am an AW and certainly wouldn't expect to see anything as I described in my OP during a DSC 2 gralloch.
I take much personal pride in my own carcass handling and do my utmost to keep everything as clean and hygienic as possible whilst the carcass is in my care. What then annoys me, is how I see the carcass make the rest of its journey towards the plate. The way even the 'reputable' game dealers treat the carcass seems to make my efforts futile. I dread to think how some of the lesser operatives treat them!:scared:
I think what concerns me most, is that any comeback from a mistreated carcass could come back to me as it is my name on the tag. It hasn't happened yet thankfully.MS
 
There's an awful lot of contaminated deer gone into the food chain then !! My chiller had 5 deer in it saturday all contaminated ,somehow I don't think I will be chucking them away do you ?
I"ll be eating them .
norma
 
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what makes me laugh is that we sit and watch a stag grunt around and roll in a midden of its own **** and peat, getting itself thoroughly soiled and then worry about touching it with a sterile knife!

as soon as you puncture that skin you are "contaminating" the "meat"

it all goes a bit too far for me to be honest!
 
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