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Thread: A very unscientific comparison: 17HMR, 22WMR. 5mm Magnum.

  1. #1

    A very unscientific comparison: 17HMR, 22WMR. 5mm Magnum.

    I spent the last week shooting prairiedogs with a couple of buddies and yesterday, to give the towns we'd decimated a break, we hit a small town near my house fit for rimfire shooting. One of the guys (Marine PMI of this site) had left the day before so we filled the slot with a local friend who brought his 22 WMR. The remaining out of state visitor had wanted to shoot a 17HMR so I passed him a Ruger 77/17 custom. After a sight in session, we headed for the dogs. The 17 was driving tacks. We didn't get many dogs, about 4 each due to the cagey nature of these hill country dogs.

    An observation: The 22WMR with 40 grain HP CCI's knocked the dogs flat out to 150 yards. I didn't hear any audible ricochets and there wasn't any spectacular damage. The 17HMR just went clean through the dogs and kicked up dust behind them. All but one (head shot at 40M) made it back down their holes. There was hardly any indication they were hit until they thrashed themselves into their lairs. The 5mm blew them apart out to 156 yards (my farthest shot) but that was expected.

    The results with the HMR were exactly what we (PMI and I) experienced the last time we took the HMR against sod rats. I even picked up new ammo for the shoot. It was very disappointing and my visitor wasn't too happy with the cartridge.~Muir

  2. #2
    Was that with 20gr or 17gr ammo out of interest?

  3. #3
    Judge baby, I rest my case, the HMR is junk.

    The 20cal mag RF really needs relaunched, the .17's should have died at birth.
    Brian.

    Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you......

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Claret_Dabbler View Post
    Judge baby, I rest my case, the HMR is junk.

    The 20cal mag RF really needs relaunched, the .17's should have died at birth.
    .20 mag RF? Not heard of it before - why did it die out?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by BunnyDoom View Post
    .20 mag RF? Not heard of it before - why did it die out?

    No idea, maybe Muir can advise? It was called the 5mm Magnum - probably the kiss of death in the states.
    Brian.

    Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you......

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by csl View Post
    Was that with 20gr or 17gr ammo out of interest?
    Having read the post that was my first question, I have taken foxes with the 20gr no problem but the 17gr was proving to be just that bit too light, the extra 3gr (almost 20%) makes a world of difference imo.

    Would also be interested to know at what range these dogs were being shot at?

    Regards Willowbank

  7. #7
    Sorry. The HMR was a 17 grain V-Max.

    The 5mm Remington Magnum came out in 1970 as competition to the 22WMR. It pushed a 38 grain bullet at 2150 fps. Unfortunately, it also operated at 36K pressure and guns chambered for it had to SAAMI at over 40K. This kept pther manufacturers from jumping onto the band wagon. Remington's 591M and 592M rifles were exceptionally strong having 6 locking lugs. Most other rimfire guns were rated for only 30K pressures. Remington had some mechanical issues with their rifles, and annealing issues with their brass, and in 1973 they dropped the rifles and the ammo stopped being produced in 1984 leaving about 50K rifles out there with no ammo. The problem is that the ammo was a good performer on game and guys kept shooting it. By 2007 the original ammo was selling for $100US a box and more. Centurion Ordnance put it back into production curing the annealing issue and delivering a round that operated at 30K. This is what I was shooting in a Thompson Center Carbine. It somes in two varieties: a 30 grain HP Varmint bullet at 2550 fps for rapid expansion and a 30 grain lead tipped HP at 2470 fps designed for controlled expansion. Both of these figures are actual readings at 3500 ft altitude and 85 degrees F temps. Original Remington rifles are hit and miss for accuracy but the Thompson Center single shot barrel is very accurate.

    As I said, the 5mm performance was a given considering the ballistic advantage over the 17HMR and I didn't mean for a direct comparison to be drawn. ~Muir

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by willowbank View Post
    Having read the post that was my first question, I have taken foxes with the 20gr no problem but the 17gr was proving to be just that bit too light, the extra 3gr (almost 20%) makes a world of difference imo.

    Would also be interested to know at what range these dogs were being shot at?

    Regards Willowbank
    About 40 to 165 yards.~Muir

  9. #9
    Hi Muir

    Sounds like you have some good ongoing sport out there buddy

    What is the ammo used in the WMR. I am using hornady 30grn BT. In mine getting consistent grouping at 80,100 & 120 yds

    Phil

  10. #10
    Did we not say this years ago, and it was on your PD's and rabbits. The 17 was accurate enough but when it came to results the WMR really showed it how to do it. Of course we never had the 5mm then, well a good supply of ammo at least. Just goes to show how the 17 has improved over time

    John
    A clever man knows his strengths, a wise man knows his weaknesses

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