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Thread: .375 H&H conditions

  1. #1

    .375 H&H conditions

    I've just received my FAC back after a renewall......
    I already have .308 and other calibers on an open ticket, but had asked for .375 on this application, something a bit different for boar on the continent, and if budgets allow, who knows, maybe Africa.
    I talked through with the FEO about it, and we agreed on the wording needed for the application, which went along the lines of, 'for use over seas, and on large deer species in the UK as per conditions of my open certificate......'

    I was pleased to see that my request was granted, but the conditions for it are as follow:

    'The 375 H&H rifle shall be carried when proceeding to or returning from a port of embarkation and may be zeroed with non expanding ammunition in Great Britain on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate financial arrangements in place to meet any injury or damage claim.'

    Is this common place? Surely you would want to be able to become familiar with a rifle through frequent use, and with the ammo you intend to use it with? I don't want a gun for range purposes, I want one I can use! There isn't much point in me zeroing with one type of ammo, and then using expanding ammo which will no doubt have a different POI when I finally get to use it on something overseas...... I've asked for it to be changed, but I won't hold my breath....

  2. #2
    Mine says similar but theirs a second condition stating i can use it for all deer in this country and can therefore zero it as per usual conditions on land i have permission with regards expanding ammo, don't have my license so cant give you exact wording not many ranges let you use that size calibre anyway or not near me

    If you were also granted it for deer then you can zero it just the same as your other rifles as per normal conditions on an open ticket
    Last edited by 375 mag; 17-08-2012 at 17:15.

  3. #3
    i have similar on my 300, i think its just to cover all events if you have deer named on your quarry list you can use it for that and if you want to use it on a proper range then non expanding has been put on the other is just so you have insurance but others might have a different view but thats how i interpret it, atb wayne

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  4. #4
    It sounds a though there's been a clerical oversight, and they've just defaulted to what is apparently a standard (if rather bizarre) condition for heavy rifles for overseas use.

    I'd drop the FEO a line and explain that, given your discussion and agreement with him, there appears to have been a clerical error on your FAC.
    Then see what he says.

    There is another thread on this sort of condition on a .375, which might be of tangential interest:
    http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.u...ition-question?

  5. #5
    Hi
    Interesting - I'm waiting for my renewal to come back. My current one says deer & boar in UK but not use abroad............Doesnt say larger deer - just deer so even Muntjac.

    Hmmmmm...

    L

  6. #6
    No, that's not good enough. Needs to have as well as on land where you have permission to shoot so you can zero too not just ranges because that restricts you to specific 'range' days that may not fit your personal timetable. You need to be able to be provided with ammo at your destination too, so if you can't get ammo provided the they have to allow you with expanding ammo too even if it's for only abroad and not uk quarry.

    Send the FAC back, you must be able to test and zero when you choose and not on the day in the month you can make a range day that may be bad weather. As soon as you've booked your hunting trip confirm in writing if ammo won't be available, most european destinations privvi might be be but if it's Bulgaria it's maybe not so easy to get so you need to be able to get here if that's the case and take it over.

    They told me initially I could arrange through an RFD to send expanding ammo out to a hunting destination. They got a short don't be silly 'do you think I'm messing about with exporting ammo' letter from my RFD.

    The key words for expanding ammo that I was told to put down on my variation after Bulgaria was for 'load development and testing to ensure consistency'. There's provision in the guidance for that.

  7. #7
    As has been pointed out they have given you one of the standard overseas use condition. I copy them below.
    I would do as suggested and write to your feo explaining the error.
    5. Overseas Use

    • The *calibre RIFLE shall be carried only
    when proceeding to or returning from a
    port of embarkation. It shall not be fired
    in Great Britain.

    or
    • The *calibre RIFLE and ammunition shall
    be carried when proceeding to or returning
    from a port of embarkation and may be
    zeroed with non-expanding ammunition in
    Great Britain on ranges where a safety
    certificate for that class of firearm has
    been issued by the Ministry of Defence.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by deerstalker.308 View Post
    I've just received my FAC back after a renewall......
    I already have .308 and other calibers on an open ticket, but had asked for .375 on this application, something a bit different for boar on the continent, and if budgets allow, who knows, maybe Africa.
    I talked through with the FEO about it, and we agreed on the wording needed for the application, which went along the lines of, 'for use over seas, and on large deer species in the UK as per conditions of my open certificate......'

    I was pleased to see that my request was granted, but the conditions for it are as follow:

    'The 375 H&H rifle shall be carried when proceeding to or returning from a port of embarkation and may be zeroed with non expanding ammunition in Great Britain on ranges suitable for the safe use of that class of firearm and with adequate financial arrangements in place to meet any injury or damage claim.'

    Is this common place? Surely you would want to be able to become familiar with a rifle through frequent use, and with the ammo you intend to use it with? I don't want a gun for range purposes, I want one I can use! There isn't much point in me zeroing with one type of ammo, and then using expanding ammo which will no doubt have a different POI when I finally get to use it on something overseas...... I've asked for it to be changed, but I won't hold my breath....
    Well, if you think the "Enquiry" in Firearms Enquiry Officer means they are there for you to enquire of, this is exactly what you can expect to happen.

    When you fill in an application you are not "asking" for an FAC you are telling the licensing office the answers to the questions asked, i.e. providing the requisite information, that they may in turn fulfill their obligations and so long as you are fit and proper with good reason allow them to provide you with (grant) your FAC.

    They (the FEO's) are the ones making the enquiries. They are not there to provide answers. However, it seems many will, but in such varied and arbitrary fashion that you'd really be best not to ask or you can wind up in a muddle like our OP. If you need help providing the answers required of you go to someone qualified who has rightfully made it part of their job to provide such help e.g. a shooting organisation
    Last edited by Tamus; 17-08-2012 at 18:15.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CharlieT View Post
    As has been pointed out they have given you one of the standard overseas use condition. I copy them below.
    I would do as suggested and write to your feo explaining the error.
    5. Overseas Use

    • The *calibre RIFLE shall be carried only
    when proceeding to or returning from a
    port of embarkation. It shall not be fired
    in Great Britain.

    or
    • The *calibre RIFLE and ammunition shall
    be carried when proceeding to or returning
    from a port of embarkation and may be
    zeroed with non-expanding ammunition in
    Great Britain on ranges where a safety
    certificate for that class of firearm has
    been issued by the Ministry of Defence.
    The bizarre thing about both these conditions, assuming that we take it as read that you are allowed to do with a rifle only what the conditions say, is that you wouldn't even be able to take the rifle home from the gunsmiths, let alone carry it out of your house to take it for repair or adjustment:
    nor, in the case of the second condition, would you be allowed to carry it to a range to actually do the zeroing they've so graciously permitted; unless presumably that journey was the first part of your trip to the port of embarkation, or a stop-off on the way home.

    It has been pointed out to me that this interpretation is absurdly literal, but are we not enjoined to regard the other discretionary conditions (other than these, presumably) in just such a fashion?

  10. #10
    Dalua

    You are correct. The wording of those conditions are specific as to where the firearm may be carried. The only ambiguity is the use of the word "only" in the first condition which is omitted from the second.
    Quite ludicrous.

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