New dog

Fireman sam

Well-Known Member
Hi chaps soon i will be picking up my new HWV, I already have 2 that I use to pick up with but that are not trained on deer. I would like to train the new one to track deer my question is which type of training is it best to do first tracking or retrieving?

Thanks
 
Fireman sam.
As deer man says the two are completely different , so as soon as you get the pup start with short tracks of Heart /liver/ etc. then let it rag a dragged skin keep it fun always make sure the pup is successful. Then keep extending the length and then the length of time it was laid. Also try not to use only one species especially Roe (too sweet) the larger deer are best. Also contentious as it may be, scent shoes, depends how good you want the dog to be. The obedience and retrieving as per norm. Regards WIDU.
 
Fireman sam.
As deer man says the two are completely different , so as soon as you get the pup start with short tracks of Heart /liver/ etc. then let it rag a dragged skin keep it fun always make sure the pup is successful. Then keep extending the length and then the length of time it was laid. Also try not to use only one species especially Roe (too sweet) the larger deer are best. Also contentious as it may be, scent shoes, depends how good you want the dog to be. The obedience and retrieving as per norm. Regards WIDU.

As Widu says, scent shoes are the way forward no matter how daft some folk will tell you the idea is. They are an absolute necessity for laying long tracks and so much easier than alternatives.

I was at a training day and watched a 14 week old teckle follow a blood track that was over 12hrs old. They are never too young to start on the association with scent and tracking. A lot different though to how you would introduce a pup or young inexperienced dog to gameshooting training.
 
Thanks chaps, will try to put all your advise to use, except for the bit about only using one type of deer as Roe are the only species i have on my permission. Will try to keep you updated with our results

Many thanks
 
hi fireman sam,
just wanted to say that if you intend to use the dog for all aspects of stalking ie. not just tracking shot deer, then my advice would be keep it well away from anything other than deer until its well and truely learnt its job otherwise you will have an HPR that will point whilst your out stalking leaving you to think "now whats she/he pointing at !! bird/rabbit/hare or the deer your stalking"
all the best
jimmy
 
Hello fireman sam . To get the other species all you have to do is ask around. Deer parks , Deer Farm's, Deer Abattoir's, people on here might be willing to save you the blood, feet, a little piece of skin, maybe the head even. All from the same animal !!. You just have to be willing to travel to pick it up. Don't stick to one species alone .
Also Jimmy is right make it deer only then when it is trained then try bird work , but why would you if you have two for bird work ?.
Regard's WIDU.
 
Hi Widu, my dog is 7 now and slowing down a bit and my bitch is very accident prone so another dog now would be good practise and timing so i can fulfill my picking up duties.

Thanks
 
I couldn't get the idea that why are you getting a new one and want to train it only for picking while
you will be hunting deer.
Why don't you train you two older ones?
It may some some hereditary problem that dogs may be lazy to learn but its of course not impossible. Dog treats
What do you thing?
 
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I like the idea of a collar or harness for deer stalking. Put the same collar onto your dog every time you go out for deer, don't ever put it on when out for birds. Effectively a switch that puts your dog into deer mode or bird mode. I read about it somewhere, probably on here! If I were in your position, I'd be tempted to try it as it would allow concurrent training.
 
I like the idea of a collar or harness for deer stalking. Put the same collar onto your dog every time you go out for deer, don't ever put it on when out for birds. Effectively a switch that puts your dog into deer mode or bird mode. I read about it somewhere, probably on here! If I were in your position, I'd be tempted to try it as it would allow concurrent training.

hi shabz,
similar kind of idea i use, tilly knows that when her collar is on she has to stay close but she knows that no collar means play time, it was easy to teach too as all i did was while out walking her id slip the collar on and not allow her to stray from my side then after a couple hundred yards at stalking speed id make her sit take off the collar and then cast her off to run as she pleased after a couple hundy yards call her in collar back on and stalking pace again, this was done every day many times during her walks but it doesnt take em long to twig on pal.
all the best
jimmy
 
hi shabz,
similar kind of idea i use, tilly knows that when her collar is on she has to stay close but she knows that no collar means play time, it was easy to teach too as all i did was while out walking her id slip the collar on and not allow her to stray from my side then after a couple hundred yards at stalking speed id make her sit take off the collar and then cast her off to run as she pleased after a couple hundy yards call her in collar back on and stalking pace again, this was done every day many times during her walks but it doesnt take em long to twig on pal.
all the best
jimmy

It just makes sense doesn't it! These HPR breeds are super intelligent and it seems a shame to only use them for some of what they can do. That's the only reason that I've taken up deer stalking. Just for more work for the gwp. She seems to just know that we're in stalking mode (must be my body language) but she still points the odd rabbit or hare, I've ordered one of these Niggeloh harnesses for her just so that making the distinction is that bit easier for her. I'll have a go with your method for getting it into her head.
 
There is some very good advice written above by some very experienced and knowledgable dog folk, BUT i'm inclined to say the exact oppisate of them.

First do u want a deer dog that also picks game or a gundog that also tracks deer. Do u do far more days picking up than stalking?

And wot standard do u want ur dog to achieve at each discipline

I have always been told train ur dog to do wot u want it to do most and best and then when its switched onto that u can add the next discipline. There is no doubt a good experienced trainer (and not trying to say ur not a good trainer ;) ) could easily train a dog to do both but to lesser mortals ur possibly making it very easy to confuse the dog when working it later as Jimmy said earlier on.

I personally would prob train ur older dog, 7's not that old and not entirely different from following a runner, u prob won't get it to the same standard u would a pup, but it should still be a perfectly capable deer dog. I'm guessing u also have a dog around 4ish? i'd then start training that and try and learn and improve from the mistakes u made on the older 1 so by the time ur pup's figured out and experienced the gundog bit u will have already trained 2 deer dogs so will have more idea and make it even better. For me tracking is a natural progression from gundog work (jist an extension of following runners really) whereas i would not say gundog work is as natural follow on from tracking.

I have a young GWP that i have no intention of doing any deer training (but very basic) with until he's really figured out the pointing side and experienced, prob 4 or 5. Any of my other dogs will track fresh shot deer to (to a standard i'm happy with for the stalking i do) which is all i need. And i understand it won't get to the same standard of tracking as if i trained it as a pup but it will still be far more than capable off fufilling my needs.

That probably won't help u as aggainst wot everyone else has said; but it will give u a different point of view and different opinion. Not saying it's right but wot i'd do.

Best off luck to u
 
Hi every one,I am looking for Bavarian Mountain Hound,can some one help me to finde liter.thank you

Hi Vandigo!
i think its woth to contact Widu directly..... He is training a bloodhound right now, he will be in Germany to get his dog tested, so he really is into our German standards of training these breeds....!
for additional information, dont hesitate to contact me by pm!
cheers

Michael
 
Just curious countryboy, You say in your post their's a lot of good advise in the post's above , then you say you disagree with it, bit of a contradiction in that don't you think. Or do you just like to be contradictory for the sake of it . If you read above he was asked why not train the older bitch (7yr old) and said not an option .
Also what you say about training an older dog to follow a wounded Deer is the same as following a wounded or pricked pheasant is a load of TOSH!. I agree with you that a dog sent to find a freshly shot deer does not require a lot of training and any breed will do.There again, this is way way different to a trained Deer dog. As you said what you call a deer dog and what I call a deer dog will be world's apart, as any two other dog owner's on here will be.What do you say is a deer dog what do you say it should be able to do to be given that title and how many have you trained to what standard. This I ask as the original post was just asking for a little advise which you say was very good i think .
Lastly you must be fairly young as you spell just like my kid's text and boy that where i will leave it .
Best Regard's WIDU.
 
Just curious countryboy, You say in your post their's a lot of good advise in the post's above , then you say you disagree with it, bit of a contradiction in that don't you think. Or do you just like to be contradictory for the sake of it . If you read above he was asked why not train the older bitch (7yr old) and said not an option .
Also what you say about training an older dog to follow a wounded Deer is the same as following a wounded or pricked pheasant is a load of TOSH!. I agree with you that a dog sent to find a freshly shot deer does not require a lot of training and any breed will do.There again, this is way way different to a trained Deer dog. As you said what you call a deer dog and what I call a deer dog will be world's apart, as any two other dog owner's on here will be.What do you say is a deer dog what do you say it should be able to do to be given that title and how many have you trained to what standard. This I ask as the original post was just asking for a little advise which you say was very good i think .
Lastly you must be fairly young as you spell just like my kid's text and boy that where i will leave it .
Best Regard's WIDU.

I think countryboy stated in his post that it depended on what standard the op wanted from his dog. It depends where his aspirations lie surely? If he wants a dog to work predominantly on birds with little deer work then he's best off to train it on birds first. A course that I too, would advocate. If he wants a tracking hound that makes up the numbers in his picking up team then training it on deer first must be the best course of action. What's the problem with that? That's exactly how I would go about it.

If you're going to offer advice, it's normal to do it without the arrogance and rudeness that your last post contained. Richard Branson can't spell for toffee but I'm bloody sure you'd take business advice from him.
 
Shabz,you're wrong saying a dog should be trained to birds first,if it's to be used on deer at all,no matter what standard you wish your dog to attain on deer.
1.Dog will be easier trained to birds as a result.
2.Dog will be steadier to everything.
3.Dog will not falsely indicate birds when on a track/stalk when looking for deer.
 
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