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Thread: Being ripped off??

  1. #1

    Being ripped off??

    Good Eveing folks,

    March this year I joined a syndicate in sw Scotland. The syndicate is "ran" by a man In Manchester who usually hums and haws about going out on the ground. Albeit I have been out around 20 times since then . I have seen very little evidence of deer in this land and I have had a stealth camera in one of the rides since joining which has only evidence of 3 deer. I have never seen with my own eyes any deer at all, never mind shoot any. I don think the man who "runs" it has been near it. In my eyes this is land that this man has got and is calling it a stalking syndicate but without any knowledge off deer. I see it more as land which MAY have deer on it


    . I found a highest in one of the rides which was severely overgrown with fauna etc. I had just noticed it because I seen the legs going into the ground next to where I had been lying in wait. The question is


    1, do I report him for fraud?



    Or just cut my loses and allow more people to be ripped off??


    I am not wanting anyone in trouble but just want to promote this beautiful land for a healty abundance of roe.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Pro_guitar View Post
    Good Eveing folks,

    March this year I joined a syndicate in sw Scotland. The syndicate is "ran" by a man In Manchester who usually hums and haws about going out on the ground. Albeit I have been out around 20 times since then . I have seen very little evidence of deer in this land and I have had a stealth camera in one of the rides since joining which has only evidence of 3 deer. I have never seen with my own eyes any deer at all, never mind shoot any. I don think the man who "runs" it has been near it. In my eyes this is land that this man has got and is calling it a stalking syndicate but without any knowledge off deer. I see it more as land which MAY have deer on it


    . I found a highest in one of the rides which was severely overgrown with fauna etc. I had just noticed it because I seen the legs going into the ground next to where I had been lying in wait. The question is


    1, do I report him for fraud?



    Or just cut my loses and allow more people to be ripped off??


    I am not wanting anyone in trouble but just want to promote this beautiful land for a healty abundance of roe.
    Im sorry pro but you payed your money n took your chances. Again Im sorry it has hasnt worked out for you. But didnt the lack of signs and when you looked over the ground and the state of thd high seats not set alarm bells of.... Not a case of being ripped off but a case of nievety..


    Nutty
    Last edited by nuttyspaniel; 26-08-2012 at 16:01.

  3. #3
    You are in Dumfries, you checked it out before?

  4. #4
    Csl, yes. Albeit 35 miles away from the land but I had Ben away at the time on work in central Scotland. I had a long chat with the man. He stated that the syndicate place had come up due to the previous member not wanting to travel to the land anymore. He was telling me the layout of the land and cull figures and the usual questions that I think should be asked. It all seemed promising until I started going out. I met another syndicate member there on the land and he even stated that he has hardly shot anything on it in the last few years and barely sees any deer on it. A new syndicate member who is on this forum also has not seen anything on it as yet. As I said I'm not hear to throw the cat amoungst the pigeons but wanting the best way to go about it.

  5. #5
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    Unfortunately you've been done. The fact that there are deer there means that there's not alot you can do really. I'm guessing but I doubt there's anything in writing about previous cull figures? If there was then you may be able to track down some previous members and find out if the figures are true. Fact is there are alot of scum bags out there who are happy to take your money. Be wary and always insist on doing a survey and do it very well, speak to other members too. My advice take your money and go calling at some farms. It'll take a while but flash the cash and you'll soon have somewhere of your own.

  6. #6
    Teyhan your a man of very true words! Yes well I'm hoping to help on a fc contract if all goes well. I do have another very professionally ran syndicate that I am a member off. I have been given a number of a estate keeper that had promised me stalking if I want but that's not the point. The guy had done me over well and truly for the money I've paid!

  7. #7
    Very difficult for us to give you a yes/no answer on a situation we know hardly anything about tbh... Basically if you checked the ground out in advance and were happy with cull figures (i.e. they matched what you saw with your own eyes) etc and the syndicate owner told no overt lies then hard to take issue with it.

    I will put my hand up and say I have been down the 'join a syndicate 100's of miles away without touching boot to soil' club before and came away disappointed. But in the end I sucked it up because a) I never checked it out in person so I had to shoulder some of the blame and... b) (widows son will love this )... as a low land woodland stalker I was utterly unprepared for the difference between roe in beech, oak, sycamore and chestnut woods in the Southern Counties and the environment they face themselves with in commercial forestry blocks in Scotland on the hill, 1000's acres of larch desert with scrubby rides, heather and the odd token clumps of birch etc.... totally different environment, totally different behaviour, totally different tactics... may as well be totally different species IMO... I struggled and I still struggle big time....

    So basically you need to talk to some of the local members who know what they are doing to find out what the score is...


    Alex

  8. #8
    Difficult one, if you have been out twenty times since March you should have seen deer, but a few questions how much experience have you, you have seen no deer, but are you seeing deer signs, do you know what to look for.


    How many other stalkers are in the syndicate what sort of results are they getting what are the cull figures lets say over the last five years .

    if none of the syndicate members are local is it possible someone else has been shooting it.

    Has it been over shot are other members spending more time on it than you are the other members more experienced


    Are there set cull figures for the year, are all the other members sticking to the numbers.


    How much are you paying what are your expectations


    I have no idea if there are deer there or not, nor have I any idea if you are being ripped off.

    But the fact that there is a highseat points to there having been deer at one time, so what happened to them
    no one normally goes to the bother of erecting a seat if there are no deer.

    The fact that the owner of the lease does not live close by does not necessarily mean you are being conned
    there are many leases like that, but there could be others that know he is never there and taking advantage.

    Have you seen evidence of deer, slots, browse, fraying etc will tell you much more about deer population than a stealth camera stuck in one position.

    You mention talking to another syndicate member but have you spoken to any others try to contact them all and see what the general opinion is

    How many members are in the syndicate are there to many to give you all a chance at deer, are they there more or less often than you

    How much are you paying cant always generalise but if its not very much its often not very good .


    I don't know the answers to these questions, but you should and you should have had the answers to them before you parted with your cash.

  9. #9
    Fraud, it depends what he promised. The Fraud Act 2006 is quite a simple piece of legislation so you would be looking at s2 if he told you you would shoot x amount of deer in a week. But as Bogtrotter has pointed out it would be difficult to prove that it was not you at fault. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, just a general observation.
    Fraud

    (1)A person is guilty of fraud if he is in breach of any of the sections listed in subsection (2) (which provide for different ways of committing the offence).
    (2)The sections are

    (a)section 2 (fraud by false representation),

    2Fraud by false representationE+W+N.I.


    (1)A person is in breach of this section if he—
    (a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and
    (b)intends, by making the representation—
    (i)to make a gain for himself or another, or
    (ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
    (2)A representation is false if—
    (a)it is untrue or misleading, and
    (b)the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.
    (3)“Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—
    (a)the person making the representation, or
    (b)any other person.
    (4)A representation may be express or implied.
    (5)For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).

  10. #10
    Gutted for you pro. Sadly whilst you might get you money back one day it will be after many sleepless nights and lots of work on your part to prove the fraud. That or you put it down to experience and forget about it. I've been there with a different issue several years ago and only vaguely fraud related (more like less work than was promised). I did win but it was hard work and very frustrating. Depends how much money you're taking about and how stubborn you are I guess?
    Good luck either way.

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