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Thread: Bullet data or powder data?

  1. #1

    Bullet data or powder data?

    Don't know if this has been done, but basically....
    Loaded up my first batch yesterday,and in all honesty felt like a was defusing something,sweaty palms or what

    I'm reloading 100gr for my tika .243. with Hornady btsp over H4350
    In my manual for both bullet and powder,
    Hornady suggest a starting load of 37.4 and max 39.2
    H4350 suggest a starting load of 39 or very close to it gradually increasing to 40.4 ish but will have to check.

    Just wondering if i should be worried and which 1 to follow.
    I have if im honest gone for the bullet manufacturer and worked a load up to 39 starting with 37.5,38,38.5
    Just worried if im on the right track.
    (these figures are from memory so Im probably wrong, i will check the actual figures tonight)

    But from 37.4 to 39 at 2500 and 2800 fps respectively will that .5 gr make a difference.Time will tell.
    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    The truth of the matter is that both could be right.
    If this is your first time reloading then you really out to be doing under the watchful eye of a mentor. Likewise when you shoot your reloaded rounds they too should be checked as you go by your mentor.
    All guns shoot differently and some are capable of taking a larger charge than others but you need to watch out for signs of over pressure. Really try to get some help.

  3. #3
    had the same problem bud just example h1000 one book start 66 to 68g another book start 66.5 to 71g both with same round so how can both be safe just worked up my own load from the lowest setting and gun shoots well then you look on the internet and get im runing my gun at 76g of h1000 with no problems or presure sighnes same round same powder from reloading sites so how far out are we i have old hogson manual that starts way more than the max in more modern reloading manuals

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by teyhan1 View Post
    The truth of the matter is that both could be right.
    If this is your first time reloading then you really out to be doing under the watchful eye of a mentor. Likewise when you shoot your reloaded rounds they too should be checked as you go by your mentor.
    All guns shoot differently and some are capable of taking a larger charge than others but you need to watch out for signs of over pressure. Really try to get some help.
    Thanks for your concern, yes it was my first time reloading and yes i was reloading under supervision.I just thought id ask the question as to the discrepancy in data.
    It was my fried who suggested we stick to the bullet data and work up.But interestingly on the front of the tub of H4350 .243 40gr is the starting load
    were trying them out at our range this week so we will both be watching eagle eyed.
    Thanks again.

  5. #5
    In exact same problem as you. Using viht N160, old mauals say alot higher than the up to date manual. Today i loaded some of the old manual which was 4 grn higher than the new manual said and i had no problems. So really dont know why they changed but i found no problem with using both manuals.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by pablo.222 View Post
    In exact same problem as you. Using viht N160, old mauals say alot higher than the up to date manual. Today i loaded some of the old manual which was 4 grn higher than the new manual said and i had no problems. So really dont know why they changed but i found no problem with using both manuals.
    think it may be as guns get older the powder companes get iffey on the loads for them ie 7mm rem mag was like 75g of what not now 68gof what not so may be a way of protecting themselfs from big bang in older guns as the 7mm rem mag is now 50years old they may be justifiyed for droping the loads down

  7. #7
    Just a theory -

    As most reloading components and powders are of US origin, I think the answer may be in the area of product liability.

    The US is very litigious and manufacturers err on the conservative side.

    So, a bullet manufacturer is probably going to recommend lower powder charges because he does not know anything about the case or chamber that you are going to use.

    The powder manufacturer know nothing about your case, chamber, or the pill you are going to propel with his powder.

    The cartridge case manufacturer doesn't care because nobody ever blames the case!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by charadam View Post
    Just a theory -

    As most reloading components and powders are of US origin, I think the answer may be in the area of product liability.

    The US is very litigious and manufacturers err on the conservative side.

    So, a bullet manufacturer is probably going to recommend lower powder charges because he does not know anything about the case or chamber that you are going to use.

    The powder manufacturer know nothing about your case, chamber, or the pill you are going to propel with his powder.

    The cartridge case manufacturer doesn't care because nobody ever blames the case!
    No. That's not the answer but back to that in a while...

    Always go with the powder manufacturers. They manufacture the powder and are therefore responsible for constant testing, lot to lot. They also have some very sophisticated equipment for testing powder that goes beyond just a pressure gun. While bullet manufacturers display the results they got at that time, with that lot of powder and loaded as they did -and accurately depict their results- I still consider the powder makers data to be an absolute.

    Now back the litigious fears the powder makers are alleged to have: It doesn't happen. They make their money by delivering the highest performance they can for their product while staying within SAAMI guide lines. It bears repeating that if you see a 60K cartridge loaded with a powder that has data maxing at 52K, it's not because they are "conservative", and it is not a license to push it further. It simply means that this with that powder, that was the maximum charge they could test that didn't produce excursions that exceeded 60K. The performance of powder under pressure isn't a constant. Some very fine powders can become erratic as you increase pressures and dance around maximum. Many of us know people that shoot a load that is at max, or a tad over, with no problems but suddenly gets one wild round that causes concern. The reason might just be that his powder becomes erratic at loads even a little over max and that some variable got tweaked just enough to send it over the edge, so to speak. ~Muir

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Muir View Post
    No. That's not the answer but back to that in a while...

    Always go with the powder manufacturers. They manufacture the powder and are therefore responsible for constant testing, lot to lot. They also have some very sophisticated equipment for testing powder that goes beyond just a pressure gun. While bullet manufacturers display the results they got at that time, with that lot of powder and loaded as they did -and accurately depict their results- I still consider the powder makers data to be an absolute.

    Now back the litigious fears the powder makers are alleged to have: It doesn't happen. They make their money by delivering the highest performance they can for their product while staying within SAAMI guide lines. It bears repeating that if you see a 60K cartridge loaded with a powder that has data maxing at 52K, it's not because they are "conservative", and it is not a license to push it further. It simply means that this with that powder, that was the maximum charge they could test that didn't produce excursions that exceeded 60K. The performance of powder under pressure isn't a constant. Some very fine powders can become erratic as you increase pressures and dance around maximum. Many of us know people that shoot a load that is at max, or a tad over, with no problems but suddenly gets one wild round that causes concern. The reason might just be that his powder becomes erratic at loads even a little over max and that some variable got tweaked just enough to send it over the edge, so to speak. ~Muir

    As you say always go with the powder manufacturers guide? But what if they are different over the last few aditions? How do decide which load is best? Or which load is safest?

  10. #10
    To the OP, whoever's data you settle on, it is worth remembering that as a general guide your rifle will produce the best groups somewhere below the quoted max

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