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Thread: Different reloads - same point-of-aim

  1. #1

    Different reloads - same point-of-aim

    How would I go about developing two different reloads to have the same POI and with good grouping, i.e. a match-type target round and an expanding round without needing to re-zero? Is it possible? I'm new to reloading (less than 200 rounds) so please be gentle.

  2. #2
    this is a very tricky thing to acheive unless you are using the same weight bullet in both cases


    the heavier of the two bullets will need to travel faster than the lighter to acheive same POI
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  3. #3
    It will be possible, but I am not sure of the benefits to be honest. I keep the 260 Rem in my gallery zeroed for stalking with Hornady 129 gr SP and Remington brass. I shoot a number of other bullets from the rifle for practice with a variety of powders and Remington and Nosler brass. I rarely rezero any of these practice rounds, I just shoot for group at short ranges. People I have talked to struggle to get this, but I find it an effective approach to take. On the rare occasions I shoot at 400m with the 260 Rem, I just hold off on the target. It's fair to say that each of my loads could be improved and as time permits I revisit them.

    I spend some time shooting 2 shot groups and 3 shot groups for two basic reasons. It's what I need to do well in the field. Secondly, since shooting my first roe buck in May 1999 I have been working on getting the group size down. So that I am comfortable shooting small roe deer and don't get a bollocking for bringing a smashed up carcass back to the larder. I would like to spend more time practicing, but there's a dearth of places to practice in Scotland.

    During the summer, when I was shooting on ranges, I was using the 243 AI in my gallery and had that set up with 70 gr SMKs and dedicated to practice and range work. In summary, I have two rifles I can shoot red deer with and usually, one is dedicated to stalking and the other dedicated to practice and BDS style competitions.

    I hope this rambling response is of some assistance.

    Regards JCS

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jcampbellsmith View Post
    It will be possible, but I am not sure of the benefits to be honest. I keep the 260 Rem in my gallery zeroed for stalking with Hornady 129 gr SP and Remington brass. I shoot a number of other bullets from the rifle for practice with a variety of powders and Remington and Nosler brass. I rarely rezero any of these practice rounds, I just shoot for group at short ranges. People I have talked to struggle to get this, but I find it an effective approach to take. On the rare occasions I shoot at 400m with the 260 Rem, I just hold off on the target. It's fair to say that each of my loads could be improved and as time permits I revisit them.

    I spend some time shooting 2 shot groups and 3 shot groups for two basic reasons. It's what I need to do well in the field. Secondly, since shooting my first roe buck in May 1999 I have been working on getting the group size down. So that I am comfortable shooting small roe deer and don't get a bollocking for bringing a smashed up carcass back to the larder. I would like to spend more time practicing, but there's a dearth of places to practice in Scotland.

    During the summer, when I was shooting on ranges, I was using the 243 AI in my gallery and had that set up with 70 gr SMKs and dedicated to practice and range work. In summary, I have two rifles I can shoot red deer with and usually, one is dedicated to stalking and the other dedicated to practice and BDS style competitions.

    I hope this rambling response is of some assistance.

    Regards JCS
    Thanks JCS,
    I am fortunate to have a very good club nearby where we shoot fullbore 3 Sundays each month, which is great for practice and we also have regular club competitions. I use my .243 for both deer using 100grn factory, and target shoot with the same rifle on reloads using 88grn. Ideally I would like to be able to switch between the two loads with a same POI, at the moment the rifle is zeroed for the deer load and for practice I just look for good groups. I still have some of the factory expanding left but will reload once they have expired, hence the interest in looking at same POI.

  5. #5
    You might struggle to get your desired result in the .243 as for some reason it just seems to like spreading different bullet shapes let alone weights around. On the other hand the 270 Win has a reputation of putting different weight bullets into the same group and no I have no idea why this might be.

  6. #6
    I have shot .270 for 25 years, mostly 130gr but sometimes 150gr.
    until 2 years ago it was all factory Norma.

    the 150's did have the same POI at 100yds and negated need for rezoing (just checking) but..... the POI is not the same at further distances.
    Norma Factory 130gr SP's (data for 100yd zero, drop at 150, 200, 300)

    100 -0.3 -0.7 -2.6 -10.4

    Norma Factory 150gr Oryx (couldnt find SP data)
    100 -0.2 -1.1 -3.6 -13.4

    Norma Factory 130gr SP (200yd zero)
    200 0.3 1.3 1.2 -6.4

    Norma Factory 150gr (200yd zero
    200 0.7 1.8 1.6 -8

    IMO there is no reason why one round and another round can not have the POI at a fixed distance, you might get them close at variable distances but the laws of physics do not allow for two rounds of different weight following the same trajectory.

    I shot 75gr VMax and 87gr SP in .243 and they had the same POI at 100yds, pretty sure I know which one would have less drop at 300yds though.
    Last edited by bewsher500; 13-10-2012 at 11:02.

  7. #7
    It can happen that you get two loads that shoot to the same POI but it's very difficult to engineer on purpose. You need to adjust the physics of the rounds -in conjunction with your rifle and shooting style- so that you get a slightly different angle of departure that will compensate for the pure ballistic differences in trajectory. A quick illustration of how this could work can be had by shooting your rifle off of a sand bag rest. For one group, hold the rifle tightly to the shoulder, for the next, not so hard. You will usually get two different POI with the degree of difference dictated by the physical nature of the gun and the rest. (a short light carbine will have more of a shift than a heavy bull gun) The chore is replicating the reverse. It doesn't always work with the same powder with both bullet weights and the more the difference in bullet weight, the harder it will be. Proving the loads will take sterling technique behind the trigger.

    It's waaaaay easier to just remember how many clicks you moved your scope.~Muir

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post


    IMO there is no reason why one round and another round can not have the POI at a fixed distance, you might get them close at variable distances but the laws of physics do not allow for two rounds of different weight following the same trajectory.

    I shot 75gr VMax and 87gr SP in .243 and they had the same POI at 100yds, pretty sure I know which one would have less drop at 300yds though.
    Thanks Bewsher500, I totally agree. I should have clarified that - I am only looking to get different reloads to have same POI at 100yds zero. I am not planning to alter the laws of physics.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Virbius;453524]Thanks Bewsher500, I totally agree. I should have clarified that - I am only looking to get different reloads to have same POI at 100yds zero. I am not planning to alter the laws of physics.[QUOTE]

    The 3 shot card below was shot at 100 yards with my Tikka T3 before I sold it.
    I could shoot a Crow or a Deer by a swift bullet change and taking the same point of aim.
    HWH.

  10. #10
    Like Muir said you will have to get real lucky for that to happen

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