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Thread: Riding along in my automobile... did I do wrong?

  1. #1
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    Riding along in my automobile... did I do wrong?

    Anyone feel like indulging me in a hypothetical discussion?

    So... there I am riding along in my automobile, in the correct lane close to but sensibly out from the kerb... it's all legit too, new test certificate, everything in great shape mechanically, I'm insured, taxed, sober, bright-eyed and bushy tailed and I am NOT breaking ANY laws... speeding or otherwise misbehaving in any way. I've a spotless license thanks and intend keeping it that way. This is all happens in clear, bright daylight and my eyesight is better than 20x20. How many ways can I assure you that me and the vehicle are as good as any reasonable person might hope? ... That's how many ways we're good here.

    And then... something steps into the road in front of me... there's just no chance of me stopping... I try... but can't. "It" tries to get of my way, but it has left itself no time, so it can't get out of my way.... Whammmm! ... I've hit it... Damn!

    Have I done wrong?

    Am I guilty of any crime? ... I'll hold my hand up to creating appalling metaphors from time to time, but bear with me... please.

    Yes it could be a deer, in fact I think it is, but it could be a dog it could someone in a silly animal suit (or nekked)... for all I know? It all happened so quickly... but, did I do anything wrong or commit any crime? ... at this stage.

    You are all supposed to say NO Tom, you're good. There is no fault on your part. Go about your life and feel no blame or shame.

    I'll give you the chance now to give me other answers... as I do not know everything and perhaps I've missed something here.

  2. #2
    Well, no. However, if I were the injured party, I could say that whilst you were within the speed limit, you were driving to fast for the conditions at the time. I could say that whilst the vehicle was all legit as you put it, that you were not in control of it, or perhaps were not sufficiently well experienced to be driving it. I could say that I was highly visible but that you were distracted and driving without due care and attention. There is a host of stuff that I could alleged (or the boys in blue) and I am afraid it's down to a court to decide.

    You see, it's not actually illegal to knock someone down. It only becomes a crime once you've done it and someone else decides it was your fault. That is to say that there isn't a law that says 'Reg 17.c It shall be illegal to striketh someone or something (herin called the 'thing') with the front end of thine motor car.

    Contrary to popular belief, things do go wrong without criminal charges always being brought. Unfortunately, the civil courts are playing fast and loose at the moment and you'd better get ready for the compensation claim that will undoubtedly arrive at your door.

    Chris - hypothetically, 'hypothetical' is my middle name!

  3. #3
    'NO Tom, you're good. '

    But you will leave the carcase there, won't you?

    (assuming you don't have consent from the local authority (or highways agency depending on the road in question) to remove it)


  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamus View Post
    Anyone feel like indulging me in a hypothetical discussion?

    So... there I am riding along in my automobile, in the correct lane close to but sensibly out from the kerb... it's all legit too, new test certificate, everything in great shape mechanically, I'm insured, taxed, sober, bright-eyed and bushy tailed and I am NOT breaking ANY laws... speeding or otherwise misbehaving in any way. I've a spotless license thanks and intend keeping it that way. This is all happens in clear, bright daylight and my eyesight is better than 20x20. How many ways can I assure you that me and the vehicle are as good as any reasonable person might hope? ... That's how many ways we're good here.

    And then... something steps into the road in front of me... there's just no chance of me stopping... I try... but can't. "It" tries to get of my way, but it has left itself no time, so it can't get out of my way.... Whammmm! ... I've hit it... Damn!

    Have I done wrong?

    Am I guilty of any crime? ... I'll hold my hand up to creating appalling metaphors from time to time, but bear with me... please.

    Yes it could be a deer, in fact I think it is, but it could be a dog it could someone in a silly animal suit (or nekked)... for all I know? It all happened so quickly... but, did I do anything wrong or commit any crime? ... at this stage.

    You are all supposed to say NO Tom, you're good. There is no fault on your part. Go about your life and feel no blame or shame.

    I'll give you the chance now to give me other answers... as I do not know everything and perhaps I've missed something here.

    Hypothetically you should have got 6pointer to have taught you to drive,he would have taught you evasive manouvres


    nutty

  5. #5
    If we are to assume that there are no other extenuating circumstances otherwise you would have included them, then up until the point of impact you have done nothing wrong. How you conduct yourself thereafter is the crux of the matter though.

    It is a defence to fail to report an accident if you did not know an accident occurred. An example of that would be an HGV whereby the driver may be unaware the trailer clipped a vehicle during a manouvre. Hitting something with a bang as you describe leaves you in no doubt that a collision has occurred.

    An accident becomes reportable as you no doubt know if owing to the presence of a motor vehicle damage is caused to another persons property or vehicle, or injury occurs to another person which includes passengers in your vehicle or certain animals are injured/killed (sheep, horse, ass, mule, pig, ox, goat, dog, fowl, cattle).

    The only way you can ensure that the accident is or is not reportable would be to stop and see what has been struck. Following that discovery will dictate your next course of action and whether or not you proceed lawfully or otherwise.

    Driving on in ignorance will not be accepted as an excuse. In fact it may even be deemed as attempting to pervert the course of justice, never mind simply failing to report.

    The reporting onus is at the time to any person reasonably requiring you to provide your details or in any case within 24hrs, which allows for the accident on some quiet back road in the middle of nowhere, but each case on its own merits...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
    Well, no. However, if I were the injured party, I could say that whilst you were within the speed limit, you were driving to fast for the conditions at the time. I could say that whilst the vehicle was all legit as you put it, that you were not in control of it, or perhaps were not sufficiently well experienced to be driving it. I could say that I was highly visible but that you were distracted and driving without due care and attention. There is a host of stuff that I could alleged (or the boys in blue) and I am afraid it's down to a court to decide.

    You see, it's not actually illegal to knock someone down. It only becomes a crime once you've done it and someone else decides it was your fault. That is to say that there isn't a law that says 'Reg 17.c It shall be illegal to striketh someone or something (herin called the 'thing') with the front end of thine motor car.

    Contrary to popular belief, things do go wrong without criminal charges always being brought. Unfortunately, the civil courts are playing fast and loose at the moment and you'd better get ready for the compensation claim that will undoubtedly arrive at your door.

    Chris - hypothetically, 'hypothetical' is my middle name!
    There Ya go Chris... good lad... obviously a newbie on here, welcome aboard... (Te, he, he)

    You're right, allegations and perceptions abound in life, everyone seems to have a different perspective and their own agendas.

    For starters though, it was indeed a deer...

    First rule in a bind never admit to anything... I'd never have admitted to the possiblity of it being a person (nekked or otherwise) on two other counts too. It looked like a deer to me and I believe I saw it clearly. However anyone else cares to view it, this silly deer bounded from cover and was not visible until it was virtually dissappearing under the bumper... it was all over literally in a moment. I'd have had to virtually not be moving at all to be moving slowly enough not to hit it.... even though I did act correctly and slam on the anchors.

    We'll worry about "spectators" once I get my clear conscience and obvious blamelessness established... No wrong done in you eyes now, I hope.. It really couldn't be helped but there is now an impacted deer.... I think... cos I'm certain sure I felt the impact too.

    Any other observations... anyone?

    ps. I'll be back to take this further later...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
    You see, it's not actually illegal to knock someone down. It only becomes a crime once you've done it...
    Not strictly true...

    Driving a car at someone deliberately is an assault, the vehicle being the weapon. In fact it would more than likely be badhed up as an attempted murder.

    Driving the car at someone and missing still constitutes an assault, '... you did assault so-and-so by attemting to strike them by driving your vehicle at them...'

    Not that I would assume Tamus would ever resort to that kind of behaviour...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamross65 View Post
    If we are to assume that there are no other extenuating circumstances otherwise you would have included them, then up until the point of impact you have done nothing wrong. How you conduct yourself thereafter is the crux of the matter though.

    It is a defence to fail to report an accident if you did not know an accident occurred. An example of that would be an HGV whereby the driver may be unaware the trailer clipped a vehicle during a manouvre. Hitting something with a bang as you describe leaves you in no doubt that a collision has occurred.

    An accident becomes reportable as you no doubt know if owing to the presence of a motor vehicle damage is caused to another persons property or vehicle, or injury occurs to another person which includes passengers in your vehicle or certain animals are injured/killed (sheep, horse, ass, mule, pig, ox, goat, dog, fowl, cattle).

    The only way you can ensure that the accident is or is not reportable would be to stop and see what has been struck. Following that discovery will dictate your next course of action and whether or not you proceed lawfully or otherwise.

    Driving on in ignorance will not be accepted as an excuse. In fact it may even be deemed as attempting to pervert the course of justice, never mind simply failing to report.

    The reporting onus is at the time to any person reasonably requiring you to provide your details or in any case within 24hrs, which allows for the accident on some quiet back road in the middle of nowhere, but each case on its own merits...
    Excellent JR.

    This will be the "crux" if the matter.

    You've saved me so much writing


    I could do a number of things "next"...

    I could be a total bad'un and just drive off... don't want to know, too complicated, don't want to be involved.

    Or... I can get out of my now stationery vehicle and see what the effect of this impact has been.

    And, I'm of the latter persuasion... but not because I'm a heartless git who only wants to know his vehicle is still safe for him to drive either.

    I'm actually concerned for the welfare of the poor deer I've just driven into.... and in the back of my mind I've also got another worry that has to be alleviated... I know I would be doing wrong if I did not make sure of what I had hit. I might have been wrong... maybe the Police do need to be informed.

    Phew! ... Nope, it was a deer... but it's not dead... it is pretty badly bust up though... and by the way the truck only has hardly a mark on it and seems just fine.

    What next? ... Can I just jump back into my truck and drive off?
    Last edited by Tamus; 02-11-2012 at 13:11.

  9. #9
    Hitting something by accident is not an offence providing you were driving within the conditions at the time and you are as you say legal in all respects.

    What you do afterwards is what it boils down to, generally anything including and bigger than a dog should be reported. If you hit someone then I suppose if they are very much dead and no one saw and there was some woods near by........

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamus View Post
    There Ya go Chris... good lad... obviously a newbie on here, welcome aboard... (Te, he, he)

    You're right, allegations and perceptions abound in life, everyone seems to have a different perspective and their own agendas.

    For starters though, it was indeed a deer...

    First rule in a bind never admit to anything... I'd never have admitted to the possiblity of it being a person (nekked or otherwise) on two other counts too. It looked like a deer to me and I believe I saw it clearly. However anyone else cares to view it, this silly deer bounded from cover and was not visible until it was virtually dissappearing under the bumper... it was all over literally in a moment. I'd have had to virtually not be moving at all to be moving slowly enough not to hit it.... even though I did act correctly and slam on the anchors.

    We'll worry about "spectators" once I get my clear conscience and obvious blamelessness established... No wrong done in you eyes now, I hope.. It really couldn't be helped but there is now an impacted deer.... I think... cos I'm certain sure I felt the impact too.

    Any other observations... anyone?

    ps. I'll be back to take this further later...
    Tamus

    There is no lawful requirement in Scotland to report an accident involving a deer...

    Can you remove the carcass from the roadway and take it away? No you cannot...
    Last edited by jamross65; 02-11-2012 at 13:14.

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