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Thread: Chickens, Eggs and FACs

  1. #1

    Chickens, Eggs and FACs

    I am in the process of applying for my FAC. I signed up for a DCS 1, letter in the post to join NRA at Bisley (Induction day should be done by Christmas). The FEO I spoke to initially said that the FAC would be closed for 5 years and that I would need a mentor and DCS 1. Most of this will be revisited on the initial view I guess. I am hoping that 9 years in the infantry will count towards suitable firearms experience. However, the odd one is that I was handed Land Approval from. "Approval is needed before a FAC is issued". So how do I get land approval to shoot deer without an FAC, or rifle? And how do I find a mentor, without needing to pay a stalker for however long the Firearms Licensing Department deem necessary?

  2. #2
    the best thing i could say do is ring basc/ca if your a member if not join ,im ex army myself and found military training carrys little weight with the feo dont ask me why, but having toured ireland ,bosina,kosovo 100s of hours weapons training, range work etc still ended up doing dsc and to be fair if your serious about deer managment id say do it the firearms safty and shooting test you will walk, the rest is just a little revision good luck but like i said give basc etc a call theyll explain the mentor etc better then i can

  3. #3
    You seem to be making problems for yourself.
    You have no FAC therefore no rifle which is commonsense.
    When your membership comes through with the NRA you then have `good reason` to own a firearm and should be granted the FAC.
    If you wish to shoot Deer you can do it with the `estate rifle` provision or with your own in the presence of the estate stalker who is effectively your mentor.
    When you have land of your own and passed the DSC1 you may be deemed a fit and safe person but possibly the authorities may think there should be a `mentor` to keep an eye upon you for a while.

    HWH.

  4. #4
    Hate to say it chaps but I'm ex army etc, etc and was later a range officer at an indoor range for pistols and smallbore. By far the worst probationers we had were ex military who obviously knew everything there is to know about shooting and couldn't be told anything. Some were outright dangerous. They really hated it when I passed their instruction on to her indoors. Good god, a woman telling real men how to fire a gun? We found it funny anyway.

    I had similar problems with our FEO refusing to take military firearms experience into consideration.

  5. #5
    Do you have permission to shoot on someone's land? It helps in proving reasonable reason for owning the required firearm, have you paid for stalking, member of a home office approved club such as you say the NRA it all helps appease the FEO. I'm ex military and although you are comfortable and safe around firearms on the range and in theatre it's a different ball game out in the field with the public rambling wherever, livestock, vehicles, roads and many other things. At the end of the day the FEO's No1 concern is public safety and you know aswell as I do some people in the forces shouldn't be given field cutlery let alone a firearm.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
    Hate to say it chaps but I'm ex army etc, etc and was later a range officer at an indoor range for pistols and smallbore. By far the worst probationers we had were ex military who obviously knew everything there is to know about shooting and couldn't be told anything. Some were outright dangerous. They really hated it when I passed their instruction on to her indoors. Good god, a woman telling real men how to fire a gun? We found it funny anyway.

    I had similar problems with our FEO refusing to take military firearms experience into consideration.

    +1 I employ staff who use firearms daily and we employed an ex army sniper,god he was qualified!!so much so he shot a .22 rimfire straight through his own hand!!!.....he resigned and we havent seen or heard of him since,can only imagine he couldnt face his peers after that!!!

  7. #7
    Let's not let this get into a 'military bashing thread' - we already seem to get regular shooting organisation and police bashing, let us try and be positive.

    Wilf - had I been closer I would offer to be a mentor, if the FEO deemed me suitable. I was fortunate that when I applied for my FAC I had completed my DSC1 two years previously, had been on many guided stalks using the estate rifle, had hunted deer in the USA and had been introduced to a couple of people in the Grampian region who confirmed that I could stalk on their land. I was issued my FAC, at the time with .308 and .17HMR, with no mentor condition. Since then I have added a .243 - again with no mentoring condition.

    I would suggest treating the application process as a marathon rather than a sprint. Book up some local guided stalks using the estate rifle, and whilst you're there chat to the stalker about the issues you mention. Attend as many days at Bisley (club rules permitting prior to your induction) and chat to the members - there will likely be stalkers amongst them who may offer a bit of mentoring - I presume you can have more than one mentor? Is there a stalking syndicate in your area that you can join as a social member until you get your FAC? Do you shoot in a driven game syndicate as they may also have stalking on their land? Is there a BASC stalking scheme near you that you could book a couple of stalks with - I know there is one in Thetford Forest which is about 130 miles from you, but can't remember if there is one closer?

    I'm sure with a bit of patience and perseverance you’ll be stalking your first deer with your own prized rifle before you know it, wandering what all the worry was about.

    Good luck!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by stag1933 View Post
    If you wish to shoot Deer you can do it with the `estate rifle` provision or with your own in the presence of the estate stalker who is effectively your mentor.
    When you have land of your own and passed the DSC1 you may be deemed a fit and safe person but possibly the authorities may think there should be a `mentor` to keep an eye upon you for a while.

    unfortunately many FLO's are taking it into their own hands and not giving people deer conditioned FAC's unless they have land of their own with deer and authority to shoot and expressing DSC1 as a minimum standard.
    They are beginning to see booked stalks as a way round this and as a result not allowing deer conditioned certificates purely on booked stalks.

    This is completely outside HO guidance and any possible authority an administrative body should be exercising

    FAC applicants need to demonstrate they have
    1) a demonstrable need and good reason for ownership (NRA membership is yours, deer is an afterthought) Incidentally good reason and conditions should not necessarily be the same. just because you want a rifle for its primary use should not restrict you solely to this use. Case in point: I have a .222 which I got for its primary use of shooting foxes, it is conditioned for deer/fox as it is legal to shoot deer with it and I should be the one choosing what it is pointed at not the FLO!

    2) they are a fit person to hold one (safe handling and experience is part of this, your FEO has never seen or likely ever will see you shoot, you need to answer all questions and give reasons why you feel you are a safe choice, backstops, handling, security, shot positions, choice of firearms, rudimentary ballistics knowledge, details of areas you would expect to be shooting etc etc )

    thats it!
    anything else is an imposition on behalf of the FLO
    IMO do not accept anything outside of this
    Last edited by bewsher500; 09-11-2012 at 13:09.

  9. #9
    To be honest miltary chaps do pretty much know most things about shooting/firearms handling there training is hammered into them from day one not saying all are like snpers but certainly trained better then most fact as for trying to slaging of trained snipers the ones ive served with would easily embarras 99% of us

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by pboro shot View Post
    To be honest miltary chaps do pretty much know most things about shooting/firearms handling there training is hammered into them from day one not saying all are like snpers but certainly trained better then most fact as for trying to slaging of trained snipers the ones ive served with would easily embarras 99% of us
    Yes but...
    I spent time recently with a new to stalking serving soldier.
    No issues with his military knowledge of weapons or basic handling but on his first stalk he was in "advance to contact" mode
    Rifle carried at point of balance in one hand, sticks ditto in the other, no wish to use the sling.

    Not a bad bloke nor unwilling to be advised but stalking in Wilts isn't the same as patroling in Afganistan so there needs to be a switch of mindset to meet the circumstances on top of any military weapons training.

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