Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 23

Thread: Question for RFD's

  1. #1

    Question for RFD's

    Question: if a section 1 gunsmith has the equipment, can they re-black a section 5 if the licence holder is on site in person?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by AllThingsShooting View Post
    Question: if a section 1 gunsmith has the equipment, can they re-black a section 5 if the licence holder is on site in person?
    I suspect not unless the Rfd had sec5 condition on their license.

  3. #3
    Speak to Rakers (Darren) - there's a sect 5 dealer/gunsmith in pulborough I'm told
    Last edited by BunnyDoom; 11-11-2012 at 00:55.

  4. #4
    why not?
    is it any different from firing someone's rifle in their company?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    why not?
    is it any different from firing someone's rifle in their company?
    I believe (correct me if wrong) that that is not allowed unless the rifle in question is on both tickets or at a range.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ths84 View Post
    I believe (correct me if wrong) that that is not allowed unless the rifle in question is on both tickets or at a range.
    I believe that bewsher is refering to taking advantage of the estate rifle rule which can be used if you abide by the rules. Using someone elses rifle on a rifle range is taking advantage of Home Office approval so doesn't apply to all ranges and under all circumstances. Being section 5 things are entirely different and some people read it that section 5 approval is required to simply handle the gun. I don't know if that is absolutely true but better to be safe than sorry.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by AllThingsShooting View Post
    Question: if a section 1 gunsmith has the equipment, can they re-black a section 5 if the licence holder is on site in person?
    NO the law is based on possession and that means holding it. So no s5 authority no holding it according to section 5 of the act which at subsection 1 says;

    "A person commits an offence if, without the authority of the Secretary of State or the Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of the Scotland Act 1998), he has in his possession, or purchases or acquires, or manufactures, sells or transfers—"

    it then lists all the prohibited weapons.
    Last edited by mperring; 12-11-2012 at 00:14.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    why not?
    is it any different from firing someone's rifle in their company?
    Of course it is....The law works differently for each category of firearm and allows you to hold a rifle under the terms given by section 16 of the 1988 act and it only applies to "rifles". The club exemption also allows possession and use in certain circumstsnces only whilst target shooting at a club. other types of firearm such as section 1 shotguns or long barrelled pistols cannot be held under club or section 16 exemptions. the law might appear stupid but it is the law.
    Last edited by mperring; 12-11-2012 at 00:19.

  9. #9
    hang on a minute..."Holding" does not mean "in one's hands"

    "To hold" is "to possess, to own"

    Borrowed rifles on private premises
    6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a
    person to borrow a rifle from the occupier
    of private premises and to use it on those
    premises in the presence of either the
    occupier or their servant without holding a
    firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It
    should be noted that this gives slightly more
    flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than
    is permissible with the use of a shot gun
    as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the
    borrowed rifle can also be used in the
    presence of the servant of the occupier.
    However, the occupier and/or their servant
    must hold a firearm certificate in respect of
    the firearm being used, and the borrower,
    who must be accompanied by the certificate
    holder (whether it is the occupier or their
    servant), must comply with the conditions
    of the certificate. These may include a
    safekeeping requirement and, in some cases,
    territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the
    1968 Act defines “premises” as including any
    land. The effect of the provision is to allow
    a person visiting a private estate to borrow
    and use a rifle without a certificate. The
    exemption does not extend to persons under
    the age of 17 or to other types of firearm.
    There is no notification required on the
    loan of a firearm under these circumstances.
    A borrowed rifle should not be specifically
    identified as such on a “keeper’s” or
    “landowner’s” firearm certificate. The term
    “in the presence of” is not defined in law
    but is generally interpreted as being within
    sight and earshot.

    If I take my rifle round to my mates house and he helps me strip it and rebuild it in my presence he is committing no more crime or contravention than he would be if I allowed him to shoot a rabbit whilst out on my granted land.

    So long as he is with the rifle at all times I am struggling to see an issue here

    Edit: should have read more carefully. above is true with regard to section 1 but I had not taken in the section 5 aspect.
    can't comment on that but think there are distinct similarities
    Last edited by bewsher500; 12-11-2012 at 09:20.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    hang on a minute..."Holding" does not mean "in one's hands"

    "To hold" is "to possess, to own"

    Borrowed rifles on private premises
    6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a
    person to borrow a rifle from the occupier
    of private premises and to use it on those
    premises in the presence of either the
    occupier or their servant without holding a
    firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It
    should be noted that this gives slightly more
    flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than
    is permissible with the use of a shot gun
    as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the
    borrowed rifle can also be used in the
    presence of the servant of the occupier.
    However, the occupier and/or their servant
    must hold a firearm certificate in respect of
    the firearm being used, and the borrower,
    who must be accompanied by the certificate
    holder (whether it is the occupier or their
    servant), must comply with the conditions
    of the certificate. These may include a
    safekeeping requirement and, in some cases,
    territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the
    1968 Act defines “premises” as including any
    land. The effect of the provision is to allow
    a person visiting a private estate to borrow
    and use a rifle without a certificate. The
    exemption does not extend to persons under
    the age of 17 or to other types of firearm.
    There is no notification required on the
    loan of a firearm under these circumstances.
    A borrowed rifle should not be specifically
    identified as such on a “keeper’s” or
    “landowner’s” firearm certificate. The term
    “in the presence of” is not defined in law
    but is generally interpreted as being within
    sight and earshot.

    If I take my rifle round to my mates house and he helps me strip it and rebuild it in my presence he is committing no more crime or contravention than he would be if I allowed him to shoot a rabbit whilst out on my granted land.

    So long as he is with the rifle at all times I am struggling to see an issue here

    Edit: should have read more carefully. above is true with regard to section 1 but I had not taken in the section 5 aspect.
    can't comment on that but think there are distinct similarities
    Mr Perring's right here - Most section 5 dealers will not even allow you to hold a pistol until they've entered it onto your ticket! Section 5 law is very different from section 1 - there was a chap convicted near where I used to live for handing in a sawn off shotgun - Man's suspended jail term for 'handing in weapon' - News - getsurrey - the police argued he'd had a section 5 firearm in his posession (under length) and that carrying it down to the station constituted illegal possession as he could have just called them out! Hmmm....!

Similar Threads

  1. RFD to RFD
    By Blue400 in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 20-09-2013, 10:23
  2. RFD to RFD
    By KEITHKILVO1 in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 13-03-2012, 13:25
  3. Anyone tired of the rfd to rfd ripoff?
    By j0e_bl0ggs in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 13-06-2011, 16:17
  4. RFD's
    By Rangefinder in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-12-2010, 22:36
  5. Which courier RFD to RFD?
    By Eyefor in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-08-2010, 10:49

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •