AllThingsShooting
Well-Known Member
Question: if a section 1 gunsmith has the equipment, can they re-black a section 5 if the licence holder is on site in person?
Question: if a section 1 gunsmith has the equipment, can they re-black a section 5 if the licence holder is on site in person?
why not?
is it any different from firing someone's rifle in their company?
I believe (correct me if wrong) that that is not allowed unless the rifle in question is on both tickets or at a range.
Question: if a section 1 gunsmith has the equipment, can they re-black a section 5 if the licence holder is on site in person?
why not?
is it any different from firing someone's rifle in their company?
hang on a minute..."Holding" does not mean "in one's hands"
"To hold" is "to possess, to own"
Borrowed rifles on private premises
6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a
person to borrow a rifle from the occupier
of private premises and to use it on those
premises in the presence of either the
occupier or their servant without holding a
firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It
should be noted that this gives slightly more
flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than
is permissible with the use of a shot gun
as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the
borrowed rifle can also be used in the
presence of the servant of the occupier.
However, the occupier and/or their servant
must hold a firearm certificate in respect of
the firearm being used, and the borrower,
who must be accompanied by the certificate
holder (whether it is the occupier or their
servant), must comply with the conditions
of the certificate. These may include a
safekeeping requirement and, in some cases,
territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the
1968 Act defines “premises” as including any
land. The effect of the provision is to allow
a person visiting a private estate to borrow
and use a rifle without a certificate. The
exemption does not extend to persons under
the age of 17 or to other types of firearm.
There is no notification required on the
loan of a firearm under these circumstances.
A borrowed rifle should not be specifically
identified as such on a “keeper’s” or
“landowner’s” firearm certificate. The term
“in the presence of” is not defined in law
but is generally interpreted as being within
sight and earshot.
If I take my rifle round to my mates house and he helps me strip it and rebuild it in my presence he is committing no more crime or contravention than he would be if I allowed him to shoot a rabbit whilst out on my granted land.
So long as he is with the rifle at all times I am struggling to see an issue here
Edit: should have read more carefully. above is true with regard to section 1 but I had not taken in the section 5 aspect.
can't comment on that but think there are distinct similarities
Bunnydoom I agree with what you are saying but I think you may have picked a bad example there. There was probably more to that case than some of the reports suggest.
Slightly off topic re section 5 but Would the term "servant" apply to, for example someone given permission to shoot rabbits (pest control) or would this have to be someone employed by the land owner, such as a keeper?
hang on a minute..."Holding" does not mean "in one's hands"
"To hold" is "to possess, to own"
Borrowed rifles on private premises
6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a
person to borrow a rifle from the occupier
of private premises and to use it on those
premises in the presence of either the
occupier or their servant without holding a
firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It
should be noted that this gives slightly more
flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than
is permissible with the use of a shot gun
as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the
borrowed rifle can also be used in the
presence of the servant of the occupier.
However, the occupier and/or their servant
must hold a firearm certificate in respect of
the firearm being used, and the borrower,
who must be accompanied by the certificate
holder (whether it is the occupier or their
servant), must comply with the conditions
of the certificate. These may include a
safekeeping requirement and, in some cases,
territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the
1968 Act defines “premises” as including any
land. The effect of the provision is to allow
a person visiting a private estate to borrow
and use a rifle without a certificate. The
exemption does not extend to persons under
the age of 17 or to other types of firearm.
There is no notification required on the
loan of a firearm under these circumstances.
A borrowed rifle should not be specifically
identified as such on a “keeper’s” or
“landowner’s” firearm certificate. The term
“in the presence of” is not defined in law
but is generally interpreted as being within
sight and earshot.
If I take my rifle round to my mates house and he helps me strip it and rebuild it in my presence he is committing no more crime or contravention than he would be if I allowed him to shoot a rabbit whilst out on my granted land.
So long as he is with the rifle at all times I am struggling to see an issue here
Edit: should have read more carefully. above is true with regard to section 1 but I had not taken in the section 5 aspect.
can't comment on that but think there are distinct similarities
Mr Perring's right here - Most section 5 dealers will not even allow you to hold a pistol until they've entered it onto your ticket! Section 5 law is very different from section 1 - there was a chap convicted near where I used to live for handing in a sawn off shotgun - Man's suspended jail term for 'handing in weapon' - News - getsurrey - the police argued he'd had a section 5 firearm in his posession (under length) and that carrying it down to the station constituted illegal possession as he could have just called them out! Hmmm....!
6.16 section 16(1) of the act enables a person to borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and to use it on those premises in the presence of the occupier or their servant without holding a firearm certificate in respect of that rifle.
Surely if you take your rifle round your mates house and let him handle it as bewsher500 suggests the above does not apply as he is not on the premises of the person lending the rifle?
Ian.
I was thinking about that as well
If you use your rifle on a farm that you don't own but have permission then you do so with authority
what if your mate has given you permission to bring your rifle in his house
same authority?