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Thread: The Kennel Club

  1. #1

    The Kennel Club

    After yet another less than helpful conversation with the kennel club can anyone on here advise me what the actual benefit of registering a dog / dogs with this organisation is?

    I asked the female outright

    "Why would it be worth my while to register dogs with the kennel club, what benefit would I or the dogs or anyone who bought puppies from me should I ever breed get from it"

    and she could not give me one solitary reason!

    I know that dogs with papers can cost more however if you are not interested in making money and just the working ability and temperament is there any real benefit?

    Insurance can obviously be taken elsewhere not just from them and im struggling to think of any real benefits.

  2. #2
    If you want to enter field trials or working tests you will need to be rregistered

    One day I want to be as wonderful as my dogs think i am .....

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by david1976 View Post
    After yet another less than helpful conversation with the kennel club can anyone on here advise me what the actual benefit of registering a dog / dogs with this organisation is?

    I asked the female outright

    "Why would it be worth my while to register dogs with the kennel club, what benefit would I or the dogs or anyone who bought puppies from me should I ever breed get from it"

    and she could not give me one solitary reason!

    I know that dogs with papers can cost more however if you are not interested in making money and just the working ability and temperament is there any real benefit?

    Insurance can obviously be taken elsewhere not just from them and im struggling to think of any real benefits.
    I'm not a fan of the KC. I haven't registerd pups in years. Pups with papers, will get you more s, other than that no real benefit. You are still able to keep a note of the breeding lines. Like everything the minute you add money to the equation you add a sour element. The involved in pups is now getting ridiculous, obviously the initial price of pups and stud fees, hikes everything up. Obviously the price of a trained dog is based on hours, worked to get the dog to that standard. High prices have too often caused unscrupulous breeding and this does nobody any favours.

    Maybe I bite of my nose to spite my face on this and am a bit of a mug at times as I'm sure I could have made far more money in the past. ie buying bitch pus for 500 then selling pups from her at 150 a few years later without papers, but I breed for temparament and working ability and provided afforable pups.

    Other gripe, trialing!!!!! Why can't cross bred dogs compete? These breeds all derived from a mixture of talented dogs, no matter what size or shape. Surely ability is best! not pedigree?
    Obviously, those who earn s from dogs will disagree.

  4. #4
    Having seen how they have completely spoiled some of the breeds by encouraging people to conform to the breed standard as per a recent documentary I wouldn't give them a penny.

  5. #5
    I'm pretty sure the kennel club run trials for non registered dogs. I think it's probably impossible to run registered and non registered dogs together.

    I'm with you on the KC though, there's no advantage at all to having registered dogs apart from being more likely to find homes for pups. It gives no peace of mind as to the health or confirmation of a breed (in fact, it's probably detrimental to health)

    I'd like to see the whole system restricted further so that it looks like KC looked like they actually care about the welfare of dogs.
    They should change the rules so that dogs as well as bitches can only be named as dam or sire on three or four litters' papers.

  6. #6
    Couple of little pointers, would we have some of the good working lines we have now without the. KC ?

    Hip score, retina records and guidelines ?

    For years, i have worked labs. I have seen the quality of labs go down big time and now you are hard pressed to find a decent proper sized and working lab that has not had an infusion of something to make it stronger boned or faster, some of em are like Long back racing dogs, sight hunters, crap hip score and still being bred from and of course most have no papers

    I have just got a GWP from a kennel club assured breeder, the owners are in full time gamekeeping, every one of their dogs work nearly every day in all disiplines as and when required, they are all, without exception health and hip scored, temperament and working ability and they have all the parents and siblings to see and see them work.

    Genuine breeding paper trail.


    I hope I have done all I can to obtain a good working dog for me, nothing is 100% but you do the best you can.

    The KC may not be everyone's flavour, they have been known to favour pretty dogs I guess, but breeding dogs there is a need for guidelines and compliance to standards.

    What would guy dogs look like if there are no standards, it's not down the KC it's down to standards.


    Phil

  7. #7
    The kennel club has absolutely zero benefit for working dogs, althou i am a hypocrite as i have to admit my 4 dogs are all registered. Purely incase i ever decide to breed and owning all dogs helps to find a suitable bitch, althou the fact my dogs dinae have the desirable and fashionable red letters in front off there name.

    In my experience the ugly skinny 'whippet' type labs are usually very well bred usualy heavily off 'new school' modern trailling lines.
    Some off the older trailling kennels are still breeding proper working labs, when i buy a lab nowadays i would actually stay away from a 'FT' type dog apart from 3/4 kennels'.

    In the last 20 or so years (before that the ft scene would have a lot off benefit) since money has strarted to creep into the gundog scene the traillers have absolutely ruined every strain of working dog, alot off the breeds are becoming severely inbred despite the gene pool being massive, the modern fashion of lining every bitch (no matter how good or bad she is) to the latest fashionable ftch sire and travelling the country to do it is jist shrinking the gene pool.

    Even moving off the labs to other breeds
    Almost pure white springers (as they look flashier) that are now the size off cockers (as look faster/busier) and no longer hunt a back/cheek wind proper and jist run about infront off owners feet

    Cockers that are even smaller to the stage strugle with a large cock pheasant never mind a hare, also some off the top ftch cocker studs are sitting at 18-25% breeding coefficient, quite inbred yet are siring a lot off pups every year

    The more i see trailly dogs the more i think they are completely f***ing proper working dogs in this country and u are almost at a stage where u are probably better off buying an unreg dog off proper working stock esp if it is for purely working for urself.

    PS 99% sure the kc will not run trails for unreg dogs, some KC unaffilated gundog clubs let any dog/breed run in 'working tests'/fun days.

    I'm not aggainst cross breeds (and seen some very good ones) but i think the kc are right not to let them run as when it come to breeding in the future u dinae really ken wot the next gen will turn out like, sometimes a big enough lottery with pure bred dogs

  8. #8
    I have been to some of the big trialling kennels and seen upto 10 litters of pups in the go at one time. In all the years I was breeding cockers I have never seen so many liver and white and black and white cocker pups.

    If you have more than one dog, mates with dogs and several bitch's or phantom bitchs for which you hold the paperwork then the KC being a reliable register of bloodlines is a joke.

    When I began breeding Malinois and Dutch Herders I came out of the KC system and used the Dutch Bloedlijnen system which is a register of working dogs. Because that's what it is people give a dogs details honestly. If a pit bull were crossed in 3 generations previous then you can see it.

    It's about time people began to buy dogs and not bits of paper.



    Ian

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by philip View Post
    Couple of little pointers, would we have some of the good working lines we have now without the. KC ?

    Hip score, retina records and guidelines ?

    For years, i have worked labs. I have seen the quality of labs go down big time and now you are hard pressed to find a decent proper sized and working lab that has not had an infusion of something to make it stronger boned or faster, some of em are like Long back racing dogs, sight hunters, crap hip score and still being bred from and of course most have no papers

    I have just got a GWP from a kennel club assured breeder, the owners are in full time gamekeeping, every one of their dogs work nearly every day in all disiplines as and when required, they are all, without exception health and hip scored, temperament and working ability and they have all the parents and siblings to see and see them work.

    Genuine breeding paper trail.


    I hope I have done all I can to obtain a good working dog for me, nothing is 100% but you do the best you can.

    The KC may not be everyone's flavour, they have been known to favour pretty dogs I guess, but breeding dogs there is a need for guidelines and compliance to standards.

    What would guy dogs look like if there are no standards, it's not down the KC it's down to standards.


    Phil
    I'm with you Phil and I have a feeling I know where your dog came from, Yes the unscrupulous can abuse the register and put incorrect dogs down on the papers but to my mind that will reduce over time as well as being something mentioned mostly by people who don't like the KC. When i look at what I get from it well my dog I get a 5 generation pedigree which I have to assume is correct, now I have a bitch I am looking to breed from and she has been Hip scored and DNA tested for VWD those results are added to her KC record and can be seen by anyone online looking for a pup. I can also see her parents scores and any test results so over time as more people test and comply with the recommendations you end up with a far better history of health through the generations. Whilst they may not be perfect there is a little more to it than buying a dog with no known history that you bought from a mate down the pub

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by sakotrg View Post
    Having seen how they have completely spoiled some of the breeds by encouraging people to conform to the breed standard as per a recent documentary I wouldn't give them a penny.
    +1 on that. Their ideas about standards and natures idea are poles apart. Crufts show is a joke! Mincing queens trotting round a ring the poor dog polished until its nose shines. Just so they can make money out of the dog at stud.

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