UK prices

glogin

Well-Known Member
I know there was a thread about the differences between prices in the UK and the US (someone even got banned :eek: ).

I spent some time looking at different prices in EU countries. It seems that high UK prices cannot be simply explained by currency exchange rates or VAT levels.

For example, you can buy Blaser R93 Luxus in Poland for 7,000 Polish zlotys, which is eqivalent to £1,350.
http://www.szuster.com.pl/Zawody/SUPERPROMOCJA.htm
I want to say it is not a cheap store as the prices there are usually higher than in other stores. There is also 22% VAT included...

They must be making money of this so I guess they buy R93 from Blaser manufacture for less than £700-900 to make a decent profit and cover all the costs they have.

How about in the UK? Is there any significant hidden tax or duty I am not aware of not present in other EU countries that would explain 100% difference in price?

Thanks in advance for any explanation.
Greg
 
Greg,

As far as US prices are concerned remember, they do not include sales tax. You walk into a US store and it says $10 on the label. You go to the till and you pay $10 PLUS the appropriate sales tax. In the EU retail price includes VAT.

I would expect a retailer to mark up 50 - 100 %. Normal rules of business.

In a perfect business payroll should be 12% of turnover, other operating costs 20% of turnover and a MINIMUM net profit of 20% to make the whole point worthwhile.

You can therfore see why a MINIMUM markup of 50% is a starting point.

Stan
 
prices

Gents

However you bend it we do get shafted in the UK on prices in my view also.

I used to buy alot of parts & bits & bobs from overseas on the bay before they got funny about listings & parts in the US & EU.

I guess we live on an island so the imported goods do have to touch many hands before they reach the shelf & everyone wants a little slice!

With buying equipment from the states you will always bet hammered on duty from the larger stores anyway I have found, however on occassion a small shop of seller could be happy to mark an purchase as a gift-(not that I have ever done that of course)!

Since 9/11 the loop has been ever closing tighter on what you could bring in & I have even had friends have trouble getting scope rings or bases sent through the post & in pretty much all cases its now a Firearms import license I think for larger component parts.

However you look at it equipment in the States is dirt cheep in comparison to the good old UK, but then again whats the use of cheep gear if you are only able to shoot one or two deer in a season which only lasts a few weeks!

Regards Lee

Regards Lee
 
You can therfore see why a MINIMUM markup of 50% is a starting point.

My point is that if you expect Polish store to make money selling Blaser at £1,350 price, according to your numbers a rifle price at Blaser in Germany must be about £700. However, you will strugle to find Blaser r93 Luxus in the UK below £2500...
Is there any additional duty/tax on firearms in the UK that is not present in other EU countries?

If not, why not buy from a shop in Poland at £1,350. Claim 22% VAT return. Bring it here and pay 15% VAT? :rolleyes: I am not good with tax laws so do not know if it's possible...

But even if not, £1,350 is a pretty good deal..


Greg
 
Greg,

In the UK you can't buy direct from Blaser, you have to buy from a RFD who in turn buys from the sole importer.

So, using the example of factory price of £700, importer will mark up 100% so the RFD pays £ 1400 and he in turn marks up 100% to give you £2800.

Actual markups will probably be less but in gerneral terms every stage will add 50 - 100%

Look at Poundland's latest financials. They make 76% gross profit.

Stan
 
It's worth bearing in mind too that many importers/wholesalers/manufacturers do not want their products sold at cut prices, thus devaluing the product. They reserve the right not to supply retailers if they have a habit of selling too cheaply.
 
Manufacturers fixing prices at the retaier is against the law in the UK. I remember Barbour getting draged over the coles for this years ago. I am not saying it doesn't happen there is always ways and means.

Dave
 
In the past few weeks I have been getting quotes from various different retailers on serveral rifles. What strikes me is the variabililty in price from retailer to retailer.

I was initially interested in the prices I could get for a CZ 550 and Tikka T3, under the impression that the CZ would be the more cost effective option. After ringing around, I failed to get a quote for a CZ whoch was less then the lowest I had for a Tikka.

Understandably this could be to do with inventory, maybe with the Tikkas being held in stock whilst the CZ may have to be imported directly, hence becoming more expensive due to the exchange rate. However, I can't help thinking that the variation in prices seems to be a lack of competition between retailers, combined with barrieers to entry along the supply chain, which is allowing a monopolistic position within certain areas of the country.

If we have a sole importer and highly restricted sellers (due to having to get RFD etc..), as we do here, what more can you expect except higher margins along the line. Just my own thoughts but willing to be corrected.
 
As it seems we are again being ripped off here in the UK perhaps it is time for one of our legal types to explore the possibility of driving over to Germany & buying a Blaser from a shop over there. I would imagine that as long as you have the appropriate variation on your certificate, a European Firearms pass & German permission etc you should be able to enter the rifle onto your certificate when you declare it on import. As for taxes, as long as you have paid EU taxes & VAT when you bought the rifle you should have nothing more to pay. :confused:

HMRC guidance copied below:-

4.2.2 UK residents returning with a firearm purchased in another Member
State or being sent to them by mail order.
• Firearms/Shot Gun Certificate issued by the Police for the
area in which the importer lives; and
• Transfer Licence issued in the Member State of purchase.
Firearms may be imported against police authority to acquire or purchase
noted in the importer's Firearm Certificate.
 
Labrador,

1. You can't enter anything on your own FAC.

2. You can only get an EU License for what you already have.

3. You can only get a "local" FAC equivalent if you are resident.

4. Firearms etc. are outwith the EU Directives on Single Market Trade.

5. UK Border Force only log firearms in/out with relevant authority. Importing is a different issue. Can't be done as luggage.

6. Remember, warranty and after sales support does not rest with the manufacturer but with the retailer. Consumer rights only apply if you buy at retail. B2B transactions are not covered. An "off account" transaction will not be a retail transaction. Any business with excess inventory that has a back door sale is not a retail transaction.

Stan
 
I think you can get stuff sent dealer to dealer within the EU reasonably easily, I think you can get the paperwork from your constabulary that issued your FAC.

I know people who have brought stuff back from Switzerland in person flying by plane, declaring it to customs. I did buy a rifle a Switzerland once, with the intention of bringing it back. I got it entered onto my FAC and EFP, but in the end I never got round to bringing it back. I used it a few times (target shooting) before I sold it on. You could get it to work if you combined it with a holiday or something, though the Swiss laws have changed recently so I'm not sure how easy it is, and I can't imagine Switerland would be that cheap! You don't have to worry about tax within the EEA, though you have to get stuff proofed if you sell it on as Switzerland is not part of the CIP AFAIK.
 
smullery said:
5. UK Border Force only log firearms in/out with relevant authority. Importing is a different issue. Can't be done as luggage.


Stan

A friend of mine brought a rem 700 back with him from the states as luggage but had it enterd on to his FAC to fill the slot he had for that call and informed the FLO when he got back.

ATB

Dave
 
100% dealer mark up sounds about right.
I remember about 10 yrs ago in the U.K. I saw a Heym 458 on the shelf of a certsin gunshop. so I had a look at it, and went away and got the variation.
When I went back I offered the manager 1500 quid for it.(it was marked up @ 3750) as it had been on the shelf for at least 6 mnths I knew of.
The manager poo pooed me and said cheeky sod. or words to that effect :confused:
Then the owner called me aside and said he`d sell it to me for what it owed them, so we went into the tea room and looked in the book,(I doubt if the book still hangs on a nail behind the door ) and I saw it with my own eyes, they paid 1725 for it, so thats what I paid.
Also, I was chatting to the manager one day and said I`d like to see a Heym 458 double with a set of 30-06 barrels, a month later there was 375 dounle with 30-06 barrels turned up in the shop, was priced at 12 k, and offered to me for 6k,, quick turn over or what??
I know that rifle wasn`t sold for ages and ages and was dragged all over the country by them and other dealers, eventually I think it did sell.
No wonder the shop went bang for millions !!!!!!
I lent my 458 to a friend over here and he got looking on the net, and the same rifle over here is 24,000 NZD (about 2.5 to pound), thats without mounts or `scope.
I have chatted to the Heym importer over here and said I may think of selling the 458 (it`s ok I`m better now :D ) and he has got a buyer if I want to sell for 16,000 NZD inc scope and mounts, so I`d make a tidy profit.
I think sometimes with high quality rifles, and other goods, they buyers set the prices, it`s what they will pay for a good piece of kit,also waiting lists drive prices up too, if people can`t get things and are prepared to wait, the prices creep up.
 
One of the problems we have in this country (apart from being whingers) is that we do not have the turn over of guns of most other European countries or the US.
Hence any business that have guns in stock for any length of time are losing money, and lost interest on that stock is factored into the price..

You cannot compare prices from one country to another as the cost of living is different.. I would hazard a guess that fuel is considerably cheaper in any of the former Soviet blocks than it is here, their rates will be different and wages etc so the comparison is not entirely fair..

I have a few contacts within the gun trade and they would be highly delighted with 100% profit.
In reality a singular gun will ony yield about 15% profit, it is all the accessories that they make reasonable profit...
What has to be taken into account is that we have excessive overheads that are an unfair burden when compared to most other countries...

I did recently look into importing powder from the US and spoke to the largest importer in this country, who told me that a standard container with the correct documentation for explosives cost £12,000 whether it has 1 tin or 1000 tins of powder in it.
So 10,000 tins costing between $5.00-$7.00 per tin(trade)min cost $50,000 plus £12,000 transit fee,plus the fact that it could be 12 months before you have recovered all your costs, soon you can see that the cost has increased dramatically and that is without factoring in loss of interest on your money,vat and import duty,plus the freight from the dock by specialized carrier to a secure explosives site with security and the paperwork that goes with it..

I don't think that people are aware of the costs that are "imposed" upon us by this government..

Trade price on remmy 700 in the US is approx $350.

Export license $1200 for more than 25 items
Import duty 4%
Vat 15%
Freight to docks
Delivery from docks to proof
Delivery from proof to warehouse
Proof..
Sat on shelf for 6 months before someone buys it.
and then someone might P/X so your not getting full return on your investment..

It seems that the general public think that most gunshops seem to be profiteering with their prices when compared to other countries, but there are hidden costs which most are un-aware of..

I'm sure that there will be some accountant that will come on and say"are yes, but you can do this".,but who pays his wages!

regards
griff
 
Hi Smullery,
I beg to differ with your somewhat terse reply to my post. I have copied some BASC guidance below which expands on the HMRC guidance I copied to my previous thread......

9. UK citizens wishing to purchase firearms in Europe (EU)
If you wish to purchase any gun in Europe you should firstly ascertain how the firearm is
categorised under EU law. Firearms and shotguns of Category B, C & D within the meaning of
the EC Weapons Directive (http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l14011.htm) may only be
purchased. C & D Category firearms do not need prior authority on a European Firearms Pass
(EFP) to acquire them and may be brought back into the UK and presented to Customs for your
firearm/shotgun certificate to be endorsed.
If you wish to purchase firearms in Category B (such as semi automatic .22 rifles and large
capacity magazine (Section 1) shotguns allowed by UK law) you will need an article 7 authority
put onto your EFP before travelling or acquiring firearms. An article 7 authority is free of
charge and obtainable from your local police licensing authority who issues your
firearm/shotgun certificate and your EFP.
Any category firearm being permanently transferred to the UK (i.e. a new personal acquisition)
then a transfer licence will need to be obtained in the Member State where the firearm was
obtained. The firearm and EU transfer licence will have to be presented to Customs along with
your firearm/shotgun certificate at the port of entry and for the firearm/shotgun certificate to
be endorsed with the firearms details.
NB: In addition to the advice above, some EU category B, C & D firearms are prohibited by UK
law. If you are in doubt about your EFP or firearms categories, contact BASC or your local
police firearms licensing department for further advice.
Additional advice about the EU weapons directive and categories can be found in chapter 29
and Appendix 13 of the Home Office publication “Firearms Law – Guidance to the Police 2002”
(http://www.basc.org.uk/media/ho_guidance.pdf)

And of course I'm sure you are wondering about my credentials in matters such as these, I was a frontline Customs officer for about 20 years & therefore do have a bit of a clue about matters such as these.

Martin
 
Martin,

Latest that I have from HMRC in a letter is that the shotgun I have been offere for sale in Italy by a Perazzi dealer is classified as an import and subject to me having a Licence To Import Firearms. Despite me doing this as a personal declaration at point of "importation".

BERR indeed confirm this but will allow it on an individual single item basis as a personal import. It, however, has to be already on a suitable authority to posses from the country where I'm bringing it from. Have to live in Italy to get a permit.

I'm still buggered.

In the UK RFD generally do not have the relevant licences to import firearms and ammunition. Too expensive. That's why we have a vertical distribution model. There are guns and ammunition available in the EU but unless BERR have granted a licence (at a £££) then no RFD can get them into the UK. That's why there are importers.

Everything letter I have is currently dated March 2009.

Again, the only thing a shotgun or FAC holder is allowed to do on their own certificates is sign them.

From the commercial perspective markup is not the same as margin or the same as profit.

Stan
 
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