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Thread: Lost permissions- we made a rod for our own backs

  1. #1

    Lost permissions- we made a rod for our own backs

    Following on from my fellow Devon deer stalkers thread i believe we only have ourselves to blame for this culture.
    I know there are people on this forum who have been stalking longer than I but i have 20 years under my belt now so feel well qualified to write on this subject.
    The first permission i gained was over 200 acres, i was more than welcomed by the owner, in fact he had trouble finding a deer stalker, within a few weeks he recommended me to another farmer having trouble with fox's and deer, in fact he offered to pay me to sort the problem out!
    I still have these 2 permissions today which should speak volumes.

    But as the years have gone by in my opinion it has been made easier to obtain a FAC, which in turn has meant more and more stalkers looking for ever shrinking ground to shoot over in this tiny island of ours.
    When i initially applied for my FAC in the 80's i was turned down because i didn't have a good reason, i thought my good reason was i wanted to carry out deer control, wrong, in their eyes it was because i didn't have any permissions of my own, just via a gamekeeper, but having eventually proved to the police i had been carrying out fox/deer control with my game keeper friend i got my FAC, and had it opened within 12 months.

    And then it happened, we will never know who it was, but some plonker decided to hand over cash up front to stalk deer, so it went from providing a service to the very busy farmer to the farmer thinking 'there is money to made in this game' and to be honest who can blame him, farming is tough, the word spread like wildfire and we find ourselves in the position we are now in.

    I had a phone call from a farmer recently, 'i have got a load of red deer need sorting out, how much will you pay me to sort them out?' now this really got my hackles up, but even though it leaves a bad taste you find yourself negotiating, all i can say is i never pay up front for any of my 3000 acres i stalk over.

    Finally a word of advice, never, never take any friends or otherwise on any of your permissions unless you trust the owner 100%, i take people on my permissions because that is the life i have chosen, but some farms i keep for myself, purely because i don't trust the owner 100%.
    To date i have only lost one permission (touch wood it will remain like that) and that was not down to taking a friend there, the farmer was untrustworthy.



  2. #2
    What about those stalkers who get the permission sorted out and then turn it into a means of making a living by taking paying guests out to do their culls?
    That is unfortunately how much of the world operates today.
    I get all my stalking as freebies from people I know in Germany and when I get my own lease that is how I will return the favours to others who are without their own leases.
    Once money comes into the equation sportsmanship takes a second place IMHO.

  3. #3
    Im new to deer stalking, but honestly on the whole we are ALL greedy in some way or another. I suspect the majority of us have more stalking than we can actully manage properly. And by managing i dont mean on the ground shooting but on the ground knowingh the deer!
    Also alot of the greed is caused by money! Its just a fact of life in the stalking world! How often have you said to someone "i stalk deer" for the first words from there lips to be "where need help?"

  4. #4
    Sadly times and attitudes change. Many years ago if you had as we called them then, the shooting rights, that was it, you had them. Others respected that and in truth I don't think I have ever lost ground under the circumstances that have been described lately. There were far fewer people shooting back then and we usually knew where others went, and kept away. It would never occur to us to try to oust someone off of their shooting land.
    It is now very different, there are many coming into the shooting world who have little knowledge of how to conduct themselves in the countryside and use cash to get into others land. Incidentally, I have never paid for shooting in my life. It's a bit similar to the days we went beating and picking up for nothing, just because we loved what we did. Even this has changed, I know there are costs involved, but we too used to feed our dogs and manage to get to the shoots. It was a way of life not a sport to be paid for.

  5. #5
    I am relatively new to this ,only been doing it 3 years and all the ground around me is occupied by stalkers doing it for a long time . I have a family farm and even one of my feo tried getting onto my ground when i put in for a varitation but for me i continue to drop cards in on places that im not sure there is anyone on the ground the ones i know are occupied i stay away from . I wanted to get my dsc1+2 as i see this will be the way and i also feel that in time it will be compulsary but for me i took a syndicate place to have more ground and i only want as much as i can manage no more and also i have found that doors open from people i have met along the way i wouldnt dream of ruining friendships gained by going behind someones back. money is the key to greed and big money can be made from this so this is what happens . I have never had money ,never will have but just try and crack on have a laugh and enjoy, atb wayne
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  6. #6
    I dont think you can blame the pro stalkers they provide a service and give valuable knowledge to the next generation deer managers.
    I have never paid for stalking but that dose not mean i will not ever pay. I have never paid for sex but the pros out there service the ugly and unfortunate. So one has to do it. Most of my ground requires the deer to be shot on sight. If a pro stalkers wants to be successful he needs a lot of deer. that means high numbers on the ground that means a very tolerant land owner or a landowner who benefits from the deer.CASH

  7. #7
    Your very right that farming can be tough and IMO any landowner is very much entitled to make as much out of his land as he/she can be it selling produce for the best price or leasing out stalking/shooting rights to the highest bidder. All I ask is that if somebody comes to you with a better offer please consult with me first giving me the opportunity to re negotiate if that's what I wish to do. I don't think a landowner is being untrustworthy by considering a better offer but he may come to realise that the guy with the big wallet is not neccessarily the "right" guy for the job.
    In an effort to gain stalking ground it is us stalkers who have created the "highest bidder market". What really irks me is the recreational stalker who obtains a permission having bid the highest amount (probably way over what the ground is worth) and almost immediately is looking to take out paying guests/clients to recoup his cash and make up for his over inflated bid. IMO the recreational stalker should only be bidding a price based on what he wishes to spend on stalking for himself. I'll add onto my "irk list" the guys who have thousands of acres, cannot possibly do justice to any of it but still want more.
    Stalking should be a sport and not a way of making cash.

  8. #8
    Can someone explain to me the difference between paying a rent for a shop and then selling a product to make a living, and paying for a lease on ground and selling days stalking to make a living?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jamross65 View Post
    Can someone explain to me the difference between paying a rent for a shop and then selling a product to make a living, and paying for a lease on ground and selling days stalking to make a living?
    you can look at it this way,if you walk into a shop your not getting charged for anything untill you pick an item up and pay for it,that item has to be paid for by the shop owner and there profit put on top,with stalking your paying to use the land,the deer are free as your not paying for them,but still have to pay if you walk away without one.
    now if you pay to lease your own land the profit/paying for the lease comes from shooting a beast and selling it on.
    if you pay a pro stalker your paying his wages for the day to take you out,just like a taxi driver taking you home

  10. #10
    Commercialism is a dirty word in sport. Look at football, tennis, motorsport let money dominate it and the quality and accessibility too take part and enjoy becomes a shadow of its former self.
    I enjoy and benefit from the experiences of others on this website and have no wish too be excluded but it largely revolves around commercialism in fieldsports and on a local level I regard selling/buying stalking or game shooting by the day abhorrent.....(sorry Malc. bit hypocritical I know cos I once had a day in Sussex on your lease.)
    I'd rather befriend most poachers than most sporting agents. But then I dont think town dwellers should be allowed to own sporting rifles either!

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