Scottish Shooting Bill

IanF

Well-Known Member
“This message is to confirm that the Scottish Government has today published a consultation document to help inform the development of a prospective Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill.

You can access the consultation document at: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/1221/0082607.pdf

We have also created a web presence which provides background information about the consultation. These pages be accessed at: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Environment/Wildlife-Habitats/WildNatEnvBill

The deadline for responses to the consultation is Friday 4 September 2009. Once the views expressed in consultation have been assessed, the Scottish Government’s current intention is to introduce a Wildlife and Natural Environment Bill to the Parliament at a suitable opportunity.


Folks

I think that your responses are needed to this!

Rgds Ian
 
Don't live in Scotland and in probability will never shoot there. However, this is likely to affect an awful lot of people living in other countries, including England.

My brain went to sleep by the time I got to the 'Competence' questions.

Getting this bill wrong could have disasterous consequencies.
 
I have just had a quick five mintue scan. There is an awful lot of emphasis that the only people who should be allowed to shoot deer are fully vetted individuals who have been registered as fit a nd competent by the DCS or some other regulatory body.

In otherwords anybody who enjoys their stalking as a hobby, such as myself who has access to a bit of ground and you take out a small handful of deer each year to go into your own freezer is going to be regulated out of existance.
 
I have just had a quick five mintue scan. There is an awful lot of emphasis that the only people who should be allowed to shoot deer are fully vetted individuals who have been registered as fit a nd competent by the DCS or some other regulatory body.

In otherwords anybody who enjoys their stalking as a hobby, such as myself who has access to a bit of ground and you take out a small handful of deer each year to go into your own freezer is going to be regulated out of existance.
 
This has been awaited for some time. I'm going to read this in detail and put in a detailed response, because I am a stalker and a land owner in Scotland.

Hidden in all the window dressing is the most insidious and repulsive apsect of proposals - that the government will have the final say on who can shoot deer, not the land owner.

DSC1, or whatever method they decide, will get you on the register but it will not keep you on it.

If the government decides you are not wanted on the register then that's that - game over for you stalking in Scotland, no reason to keep your FAC either.

I'm not a politcal person, but this has a political, dare I say socialist, agenda - nationalising stalking in scotland.
 
I have had a quick look and am starting to feel a bit uncomfortable with it. Only people who are on the register may stalk in Scotland, other folks travelling to us will have to have their equivalent of whatever it is they come up with or be accompanied by a stalker who is on the register.

I expect the equivalent will be level 2, I would like to think it would be level 1, thereby opening it up to a good many people but I fear it will not be. There is talk of "granfathering" rights for people who can prove their competence, I bet this will apply to keepers and such and to holders of level 2, this will be a small number of people throughout the length of Scotland. This will ensure that the vast majority of stalkers in Scotland will then, if they want to remain stalkers, will have to take the new certificate thereby providing revenue for Mr Salmond who is trying to get money from all quarters. Nix Niveus is right it is all political.

I shall have to read it all again but at present the only sensible decision is to scrap the game licence, as it stands at the moment winning the lottery would be easier than finding a Post Office with one in and an employee who knew what one is.

It is not nice reading

John
 
What a document. The only thing taht is clear is that recreational stalkers will lose out and end up having to sit exams at what cost?

I wonder what BASC is preparing in response. I'll be responding and talking to BASC as well.

Dave
 
Thanks for drawing our attention to this IanF. I have followed the debate in the media mainly relating to close seasons and the effect on Red Stag "status" as an iconic national symbol.

I will take the time to read this at length and respond here and elsewhere.

Herne
 
I am a small time recreational stalker. I asked the BASC directly about their stance on this and also e-mailed, no response, and yes I am a member. Don't the DCS and BASC have members sitting on in both chairs as it were, was not the dsc 1 and 2 meant too be The "recognised" standard, its very disheartening, quite a worry. i havn't read it all :eek: but it will mean more money, thats for sure.
 
macberran said:
I am a small time recreational stalker. I asked the BASC directly about their stance on this and also e-mailed, no response, and yes I am a member. Don't the DCS and BASC have members sitting on in both chairs as it were, was not the dsc 1 and 2 meant too be The "recognised" standard, its very disheartening, quite a worry. i havn't read it all :eek: but it will mean more money, thats for sure.

The official stance of the BASC is that they are against it. David has said as much on here.

However, I think Colin Sheddon (?) head of BASC Scotland was involved in the think tank that produced this, but I have heard nothing about any attempts to stop this from BASC at the early stages.

DSC1/2 are recognised qualifications - problem is, they may now become legally required ones as well. BASC opposes them as requirements for FAC grants.
 
DSC1/2 are recognised qualifications - problem is, they may now become legally required ones as well. BASC opposes them as requirements for FAC grants.


Was there or is there not whisperings about a DCS standard qualification seperate too the DSC1+2 if so it does not negate the standing of the 1+2 qualification but you require additional papers(at cost) to stalk in Scotland.
Appoligies if I'm a bit slow here.
 
Just read section on competence it states:
'Concerns have been expressed by the deer sector, the public and reports made to the police about specific instances where deer welfare may have been compromised, and there is a need to satisfy the public that appropriate oversight and safeguards are in place to ensure the welfare of deer is protected.'
Surely everyone who participates in deer stalking has the welfare of deer uppermost in their minds when they go out stalking. So no new qualification is going to make any difference. It does look like another money making scheme.
And to have a register of qualified stalkers isn't the way forward. It's difficult enough just now to get any decent stalking it's going to make it even harder.
 
As per my previous posts under the DCS meeting in this forum I think I can safely say that I was right. The DCS soon to become part of SNH cannot be trusted, they are both government organisations with their own agenda. Someone said their proposals could bring more stalking available, I hope he now see's that this is not going to be the case and it is very likely that it will be the complete opposite. Their plans for an increase in forestry is comendable but at what price.
The Scottish government it seems does not want deer stalking to be a recreational sport for the many and with legislation like this it certainly wont be. Out of this all we will see is more headlines in the press of Deer being chased by helicopters to a waiting killing zone of so called profesionals.
Correct me if I'm wrong but on the whole hasn't deer welfare been ok over the last many decades, yes there may have been areas where the management hasn't been performed well in allowing numbers to increase substantially in some areas but this has not been country wide. In the main I think it has been ok. Even prior to the conception of the DSC 1 & 2 the vast majority of stalkers went out with the deers welfare foremost in their mind. Yes legislation has come in regarding carcass preparation and inspection prior to it going for public consumption which is only right. We have a duty as stalkers to treat the meat we sell with the greatest care to prevent diseases etc. I dont think anyone can argue with that. But to take up this latest proposal would be catastophic for normal mortals like myself and many others.
 
BASC, NGO,SGA,Countryside Alliance,BDS etc Now's your chance to put our membership money to good use and show us how well you represent us!
This was flagged up several months ago, and was allowed to get to this stage.
The DCS will only have a role to play in the SNH/SEPA/FC umbrella if they create legislation,not for the benfit of the DEER but to their pockets..

So lets have a statement from ALL these organisations on how they are going to attack this proposed legislation, and earn our membership money..

regards
griff
 
I have read this post and others on this site and it seems that not only do stalkers on here have a concern about the deer commission. But they also need to be very careful of what they write.It was stated on here months ago by members that the DCS was going down the path of over seeing all control with regards deerstalking in Scotland this was ridiculed by other members. There have been meetings with the public that only a hand full of well versed people attended. Now it is time that people listen to the rummer mills as they might just be correct.
We can knock this about all day but until something is written in a positive manner (facts) we have no chance of even starting to guess what the DCS are thinking of doing. If we as stalkers leave what has been written so vaguely to go to the Scottish parliament it will be an end of stalking as we know it.
Parliament do not have a clue about deer management and that is not there fault they are being guided buy the DCS who don't care about about the amature stalker or the public they are looking after number one and we would all do in there position.
We now have the bodies we pay to voice our concerns eg BASC NGO SACS SGO. What are they doing they are sitting back and hoping that they will make extra revenue from what they see will be a new Deerstalking test.
 
We now have the bodies we pay to voice our concerns eg BASC NGO SACS SGO. What are they doing they are sitting back and hoping that they will make extra revenue from what they see will be a new Deerstalking test.

Exactly ! L.D.G. I am not a conspiricy theorist, but the duplicitous manner in which most all government things are done makes me angry. There will be common denominators here. I think if you trace back, all those who chair there and the DCS and in government office SNH,you will find a buddy-bank. Palm greasing
And I fear we all no what is imminent. First The Hunting ban,Liscence for sea-fishing, lead-ban and now this.
Where are our Reprisentatives that we pay subs to. :rolleyes: ...Silence
Meanwhile the lowly recreatonal stalker gets edged out off the picture inch by inch by inch.
 
I have this afternoon spoken to Kenny Willmitt of BASC for Scotland, and he assures me that the BASC are steadfastly opposed to any form of mandatory training, and will continue to oppose it. They are of the opinion that the current voluntary DMQ 1 and 2 is working well where they are required, FC and the like, and see no need need for further training and will oppose any attempt to introduce it.

He has promised to send me a copy of their last published article on this, as soon as I get it I will post it here.

John
 
I think everyone has flagged up some valid points.

A few points

Colin sheddon [BASC Scotland] is a deer commissioner[conspiracy theorists can make their minds up!!!]

SGA have in my mind given a very lack lustered response[still harking on about seasons and given very little consideration to recreational stalkers who through supporter membership make up a large % of membership and income]

I have been discussing the "standards" with a few DCS employees and they assure me that it is not their intention to get rid of recreational stalkers , but to encourage them, how they will do this I don't know. They also say that they have nothing in place inregard to qualifications, DSC ???



I think it is vital we all put a coherant response in
 
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