Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: An alternative option for automatic powder throwing

  1. #1

    An alternative option for automatic powder throwing

    I have used an RCBS chargemaster 1500 Combo for 3 years now had one, fell out with it, sold it, bought another 'cos I missed it and recently sold that one..

    Whilst it is a wonder of modern technology and has a lot going for it, I got fed up with overthrows, underthrows etc.. (this is a common criticism of the units) and ended up buying a beam scale and measuring twice on every load, removing or adding kernels of powder with tweezers on pretty much every throw.. It works perfectly with ball powders but struggles with repeatability with extruded powders... there are mickey mouse fixes etc such as using a mcdonalds straw to control the drop more but.. really.. a right PITA (and one has to obtain a US McDonalds straw as the UK ones are not big enough!!!)

    I have now moved to a Target Master auto trickler with an RCBS 10/10 scale (although any good beam scale will work) the Target master is too slow to drop a complete rifle load (it was originally designed for pistol loads) but it is incredibly accurate and repeats loads TO THE INDIVIDUAL KERNEL..... EVERY TIME! it is also optical so doesn't suffer from local RF interferance and drifting like the RCBS (or any of the combined electronic scales) does, nor does it need leaving on to warm up etc.. etc..! plus it is battery powered and so portable should you want it to be.

    I have bought a set of Lee powder dippers too and the process is simply dip, dump the load in the pan, press the button on the Target Master and the TM then takes the load up to the desired weight and as I say, accurate to the kernel every time.. this process also takes about half the time of the RCBS (which is the fastest combo unit out there!)

    Just an alternative thought from a long time user... don't underestimate the power of old school! This system also doesn't require any mains power which, in some circumstances is a huge bonus plus there is very little to go wrong!

    Cost wise... depending on scales you are looking at quite a bit less for the TM, scales & lee dippers, so a cost saving too.

    Cheers
    Paul

  2. #2
    I had a look on their website, and I does seem impressively accurate, but it looks as though it might take a bit of trial and error to set the sensor up before you start, and if either the scales or the sensor unit get moved even slightly the whole lot will presumably need to be calibrated again to be sure. Time saving might be worth it if doing large batches, but I can't see huge gains if only doing say 50 at a time.

    I just add a charge's worth to an old .308 case, set my lee perfect powder measure to throw juuust short, then use the .308 case as a trickler to bring it up to the dot on beam scales, 'cos I'm a tight arse. Costs nowt, and works well enough for me.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Vipa View Post
    I have used an RCBS chargemaster 1500 Combo for 3 years now had one, fell out with it, sold it, bought another 'cos I missed it and recently sold that one..

    Whilst it is a wonder of modern technology and has a lot going for it, I got fed up with overthrows, underthrows etc.. (this is a common criticism of the units) and ended up buying a beam scale and measuring twice on every load, removing or adding kernels of powder with tweezers on pretty much every throw.. It works perfectly with ball powders but struggles with repeatability with extruded powders... there are mickey mouse fixes etc such as using a mcdonalds straw to control the drop more but.. really.. a right PITA (and one has to obtain a US McDonalds straw as the UK ones are not big enough!!!)

    I have now moved to a Target Master auto trickler with an RCBS 10/10 scale (although any good beam scale will work) the Target master is too slow to drop a complete rifle load (it was originally designed for pistol loads) but it is incredibly accurate and repeats loads TO THE INDIVIDUAL KERNEL..... EVERY TIME! it is also optical so doesn't suffer from local RF interferance and drifting like the RCBS (or any of the combined electronic scales) does, nor does it need leaving on to warm up etc.. etc..! plus it is battery powered and so portable should you want it to be.

    I have bought a set of Lee powder dippers too and the process is simply dip, dump the load in the pan, press the button on the Target Master and the TM then takes the load up to the desired weight and as I say, accurate to the kernel every time.. this process also takes about half the time of the RCBS (which is the fastest combo unit out there!)

    Just an alternative thought from a long time user... don't underestimate the power of old school! This system also doesn't require any mains power which, in some circumstances is a huge bonus plus there is very little to go wrong!

    Cost wise... depending on scales you are looking at quite a bit less for the TM, scales & lee dippers, so a cost saving too.

    Cheers
    Paul
    I use a beam scale and a manual trickler. When I weigh charges, I throw the charge short and trickle in a few grains. Takes about 10 seconds. Very old school. Very fast. Very inexpensive. It just requires a) practice and b) attention.

    Now, if a person is one of those guys who agonizes because the pointer on the beam isn't exactly centered on the corresponding mark on the scale, and needs to tweezer out (or in) a carefully divided grain of powder to get the lines to match up exactly, you need to rethink the operation. The case-to-case volume variation will have a greater effect than that smidge of powder!~Muir

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by klunk View Post
    I had a look on their website, and I does seem impressively accurate, but it looks as though it might take a bit of trial and error to set the sensor up before you start, and if either the scales or the sensor unit get moved even slightly the whole lot will presumably need to be calibrated again to be sure. Time saving might be worth it if doing large batches, but I can't see huge gains if only doing say 50 at a time.

    I just add a charge's worth to an old .308 case, set my lee perfect powder measure to throw juuust short, then use the .308 case as a trickler to bring it up to the dot on beam scales, 'cos I'm a tight arse. Costs nowt, and works well enough for me.
    Once you have set the sensor up the first time (which took about 5 throws) it should stay the same unless it is deliberately moved. remember, it is optical and is reading the beam at the same spot no matter what weight of powder is being thrown. To get it out and set it up for each use takes less time than it does to get the RCBS out, fire it up, go through the calibration process.... and then, if leaving it to warm up for 30 mins is taken into consideration, it is game set and match to the beam and TM. The biggest gripe with the RCBS is that it has a tendency to throw a 'clump' of powder when it gets close to finishing a load. that can push it .1-.3gn over the desired weight and will happen 5 times out of 10 and is bloody frustrating and then time consuming!

    Whilst a few kernels may not be the root cause of inconsistency, particularly when shooting 1,000 yards, it's just one more variable to take out of the equason.. at stalking ranges, it can't hurt to be as precice as possible and all this more accurately and for less money than an electronic combination scale

  5. #5
    Muir, I'm with you. Always fancied an electronic system, so not poo-pooing them, but wonder how much ammo I could buy with the money. I drop short, top up with RCBS trickler. I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds this way. No I am not kidding. I used to shoot between 300 and 400 rounds of pistol per week.
    Sounds a great idea, but I don't load enough now to be bothered.

    I shall have a look though, just in case Santa is struggling.

    Chris

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Vipa View Post
    I have used an RCBS chargemaster 1500 Combo for 3 years now had one, fell out with it, sold it, bought another 'cos I missed it and recently sold that one..

    Whilst it is a wonder of modern technology and has a lot going for it, I got fed up with overthrows, underthrows etc.. (this is a common criticism of the units) and ended up buying a beam scale and measuring twice on every load, removing or adding kernels of powder with tweezers on pretty much every throw.. It works perfectly with ball powders but struggles with repeatability with extruded powders... there are mickey mouse fixes etc such as using a mcdonalds straw to control the drop more but.. really.. a right PITA (and one has to obtain a US McDonalds straw as the UK ones are not big enough!!!)

    I have now moved to a Target Master auto trickler with an RCBS 10/10 scale (although any good beam scale will work) the Target master is too slow to drop a complete rifle load (it was originally designed for pistol loads) but it is incredibly accurate and repeats loads TO THE INDIVIDUAL KERNEL..... EVERY TIME! it is also optical so doesn't suffer from local RF interferance and drifting like the RCBS (or any of the combined electronic scales) does, nor does it need leaving on to warm up etc.. etc..! plus it is battery powered and so portable should you want it to be.

    I have bought a set of Lee powder dippers too and the process is simply dip, dump the load in the pan, press the button on the Target Master and the TM then takes the load up to the desired weight and as I say, accurate to the kernel every time.. this process also takes about half the time of the RCBS (which is the fastest combo unit out there!)

    Just an alternative thought from a long time user... don't underestimate the power of old school! This system also doesn't require any mains power which, in some circumstances is a huge bonus plus there is very little to go wrong!

    Cost wise... depending on scales you are looking at quite a bit less for the TM, scales & lee dippers, so a cost saving too.

    Cheers
    Paul
    if you were getting over throws with the charge master why didnt you set it just under and use the trickle button ??? Ive use a charge master since they came out,I find there just great.you can also re programme the speed of which is dispenses which is good for the larger calibers.
    there accurate (check against Scott parker tuned beam scales) and fast,whats not to like other than the intial price.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by see it shoot it View Post
    if you were getting over throws with the charge master why didnt you set it just under and use the trickle button ??? Ive use a charge master since they came out,I find there just great.you can also re programme the speed of which is dispenses which is good for the larger calibers.
    there accurate (check against Scott parker tuned beam scales) and fast,whats not to like other than the intial price.
    Because of the way the drop tube is designed it tends to throw clumps of extruded powder out, it is a well known issue, it is why the americans came up with the McDonalds straw fix, Lyman include one with their machines (a plastic insert, not a McDonalds straw!) even when using the trickle function they still like to throw clumps with extruded powders.

    I think it all boils down to compromise.. the tube needs to be big enough to push large volumes through when the unit is doing it's initial work but then the diameter is too great to give enough constriction to work with single kernels (it's a but like the penny push machines in the arcades... the kernels start to pile up on top of each other and then, when given that final nudge fall over the edge en mass!). The tube on the Target master on the other hand is much narrower and in fact when it is working throws the powder as a stream of single kernels. The down side is speed but by using dippers to drop the initial bulk load, the whole process is faster.

    It is the same system as Muir is using only the trickling stage is automated.

    The other thing I found very frustrating with the RCBS (relates to overthrows again) is that when it bleeps to say it's done a load, I used to whip the pan off and dump it in a case etc... I noticed that quite often, it will bleep to say it's done, then, if you let it settle the screen changes to show the number of thrown loads and then goes back to the weight which, would then be .1 -.3gn higher than it said when it bleeped.. this was not a machine fault as both of my units did the same, so I always waited for it to stabilise then cursed and swore as I either dumped it back into the hopper or got the tweezers out.. If you have never had an over or underthrow with yours, you have a unique machine!

    Anyhoo... just offering an alternative idea up for those interested which just happens to be faster, more accurate and cheaper to boot albiet in not quite so sexy packaging!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vipa View Post
    Because of the way the drop tube is designed it tends to throw clumps of extruded powder out, it is a well known issue, it is why the americans came up with the McDonalds straw fix, Lyman include one with their machines (a plastic insert, not a McDonalds straw!) even when using the trickle function they still like to throw clumps with extruded powders.

    I think it all boils down to compromise.. the tube needs to be big enough to push large volumes through when the unit is doing it's initial work but then the diameter is too great to give enough constriction to work with single kernels (it's a but like the penny push machines in the arcades... the kernels start to pile up on top of each other and then, when given that final nudge fall over the edge en mass!). The tube on the Target master on the other hand is much narrower and in fact when it is working throws the powder as a stream of single kernels. The down side is speed but by using dippers to drop the initial bulk load, the whole process is faster.

    It is the same system as Muir is using only the trickling stage is automated.

    The other thing I found very frustrating with the RCBS (relates to overthrows again) is that when it bleeps to say it's done a load, I used to whip the pan off and dump it in a case etc... I noticed that quite often, it will bleep to say it's done, then, if you let it settle the screen changes to show the number of thrown loads and then goes back to the weight which, would then be .1 -.3gn higher than it said when it bleeped.. this was not a machine fault as both of my units did the same, so I always waited for it to stabilise then cursed and swore as I either dumped it back into the hopper or got the tweezers out.. If you have never had an over or underthrow with yours, you have a unique machine!

    Anyhoo... just offering an alternative idea up for those interested which just happens to be faster, more accurate and cheaper to boot albiet in not quite so sexy packaging!
    I see,you must have been just unlucky I have had none of the problems you have come accross only the odd over throw,anyway as long as your happy now

  9. #9
    Recently received a replacement Charge Master Combo direct from RCBS after putting up with what was clearly a unit manufactured on a Christmas Eve shift more than 5 years ago. The cheque to RCBS to dump my turkey came to about 40 and you get to take a hammer to it as proof it may no longer be used which is therapy on a grand scale!

    The new model is a revelation and simply gets on with whatever I tell it without missing a beat. I even tried to fool it by programming a charge of 1.5grns and it did it perfectly!

    Cheers

  10. #10
    I too have watched the video and was impressed how it measured exactly,I got fed up with trickler,I throw shy and pinch powder with my fingers and trickle like that.

Similar Threads

  1. For Sale Marlin 995SS 22lr semi automatic ...Sale / Swap
    By sparko in forum Firearms
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 26-11-2012, 17:01
  2. Automatic stops?
    By countrryboy in forum Other Shooting & Keepering
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-10-2012, 20:17
  3. Automatic drinker pipes and rodents
    By countrryboy in forum Other Shooting & Keepering
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 26-06-2011, 00:11
  4. Throwing the dummy out of the pram
    By ecoman in forum Deer Stalking General
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 02-02-2011, 12:01
  5. Which option?
    By stig in forum Equipment & Accessories
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 26-05-2010, 22:16

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •