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Thread: HMRC and Beaters

  1. #1

    HMRC and Beaters

    Have just been reading up on the new HMRC rules coming into effect in April regarding casual labour and cash payments. From what I understand all shoots that hire beaters will be required to electronically submit a list of the names, addresses, dates of birth and national insurance numbers for all beaters along with details of payments. NO doubt HMRC wil be looking for a tax payment on earnings. If a beater is required to attend a shoot on more than one day they will be classed as employed by the shoot and the employer will be required to pay national insurance etc.
    I am sure we all know of persons who throughout the season are beating several days a week and a few that would rather that HMRC were not aware of their earnings. I can see this move having at least some effect on the availability of beaters and possibly shooting in general.
    Will this effect your shoot or you personally as a beater?

  2. #2
    It will have no effect on me personally as I do it for the enjoyment of the day, and to give the dog a run.

    Who it will have an effect on though is the army of doleys and those on invalidity benifit {who have never had neither a gun nor dog in their hand, or come to think of it, spade, shovel or even pen . . . {flags exempt} working five days a week and being paid cash in hand over and above their benifits . . . . . Which I work my arse off to pay for in the first place . . . . and usually can't go beating because i'm working, and paying my taxes . . . . . so they can be 'paid' their benifits AND go beating !!!!

    GET A REAL JOB !!!

    Invalidity = Invalid not Beater !!!

    Last edited by Cadex; 02-01-2013 at 18:19.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 6pointer View Post
    +
    We pay our beaters but from the guns pocket not from "shoot" as such boss has a collection for the beaters will this count ,if it does I dare say we will put more food or come up with some other way of payment !

  5. #5
    It could make a big difference to some off the big commercial shoots shooting 4,5 or 6 days weeks, up here they generally rely on dsss as no one else can take that ammount off time off work, mibee they will start paying a fair days pay and some poeple could actually make a bit of a living at it, part tme keepers or other seasonal summer workers etc. It's not bad money for the DSSS when ur rent. bills already paid for
    I've always said on commercial shoots beaters/pickers up should be paid a fair wage, for wot can be a 10+ hour day on occasions, i wouldnae expect anyone to work for me for 35 quid a day, bloody insult really, but we still do it and take time off ur day job to do it. We must be off our heads

    As for normal beaters doing 10-20 days(every sat-every 2nd sat) it shouldnae make much difference if u keep recipts for dog expenses (food,vet bills) plus shooting gear waterproofs u won't be making a profit anyway so not due any tax (dunno how NI works as been SE all my life) I do put my beating money throu tax as i claim all my exp out the business for dogs and gear.

    Norma that shounds a good way round it, if not coming out shoot funds more a 'donation' than pay althou i'm no accountant.

    No doubt be some big changes (althou probably only in clever accountancy) but hopefully for the better and hopefully drive pay up a bit.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Cadex View Post
    It will have no effect on me personally as I do it for the enjoyment of the day, and to give the dog a run.

    Who it will have an effect on though is the army of doleys and those on invalidity benifit {who have never had neither a gun nor dog in their hand, or come to think of it, spade, shovel or even pen . . . flags exempt} working five days a weeks and being paid cash in hand over and above their benifits . . . . .

    Which I work my arse off to pay for in the first place . . . . and usually can't go beating because i'm working, paying my taxes . . . . . so they can be 'paid' their benifits AND go beating !!!!

    GET A REAL JOB !!!

    Invalidity = Invalid not Beater !!!

    a fair few of ours are pensioners does the same apply?

    They will get hit as will I but not to any real amount as its just once or twice a week, but we shall see how many comply and how many get the cash from elsewhere to pay beaters.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Cadex View Post
    It will have no effect on me personally as I do it for the enjoyment of the day, and to give the dog a run.

    Who it will have an effect on though is the army of doleys and those on invalidity benifit {who have never had neither a gun nor dog in their hand, or come to think of it, spade, shovel or even pen . . . flags exempt} working five days a weeks and being paid cash in hand over and above their benifits . . . . .

    Which I work my arse off to pay for in the first place . . . . and usually can't go beating because i'm working, paying my taxes . . . . . so they can be 'paid' their benifits AND go beating !!!!

    GET A REAL JOB !!!

    Invalidity = Invalid not Beater !!!

    Yes agreed that there are many who go beating just for the enjoyment but lets face it, as you point out there is a good few who are on the dole/invalidity and do look to beating money as a bit untraceable extra. Not for one second am I saying I agree with this but without this "army of doleys" what effect does it have on shooting. Apparently the persons responsible for the shoot can/will be fined if they do not comply.
    As far as I can see Norma even if the guns on the day have a collection to pay the beaters they are being paid by and from the shoot.
    I would think that most of the big concerns are VAT registered so it will not be difficult to track down shoots. Again most shoots give their beaters a list of dates at the beginning of the season. This would seem to imply that the beaters are employed over that period and the shoot will require to pay national insurance etc. I suppose in theory a beater could end up being employed by several shoots.
    Self employed as a beater could be a way but according to the article I have read the minute you receive instructions as to what is required I.E. a keeper asking you to beat a certain area you are employed and not self employed.
    Worth reading up on if you run a shoot and pay beaters.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by al4x1 View Post
    a fair few of ours are pensioners does the same apply?

    They will get hit as will I but not to any real amount as its just once or twice a week, but we shall see how many comply and how many get the cash from elsewhere to pay beaters.

    Hi al4x1,

    My post was aimed squarely at the malingerers who have never worked, nor have any intention of ever doing so, certainly not at pensioners or anyone else whom has lost their job or became ill or injured.

    Its the malingerers that get up my nose.
    Last edited by Cadex; 02-01-2013 at 18:21.

  9. #9
    I know what you mean Cadex though i have to say most who can't be bothered to work can't be bothered to Beat for well under the minimum wage its too much like hard work. Thats a possible point though once it goes legitimate will it highlight the fact most pay well under minimum wage, and bearing in mind we benefit from a days shooting at the end the possible issues are fairly endless.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza View Post
    the minute you receive instructions as to what is required I.E. a keeper asking you to beat a certain area you are employed and not self employed.
    I suspect there will be any number of horror stories being bandied about. If simply 'receiving instructions' constituted 'employment' then no one, (not even solicitors) would be self-employed. Given the hamfisted way much of our legislation is cobbled together these days it will all come down to case law. Probably sooner rather than later as HMRC will undoubtedly be quite happy to turn over a small rural enterprise rather than try clawing back X billions of unpaid VAT from Vodaphone.

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