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Thread: 100 meter range, West Dorset, tomorrow morning?!

  1. #1

    100 meter range, West Dorset, tomorrow morning?!

    Its a long shot (scuse the pun). I offered a Newbie to the site a chance to shoot a target tomorrow morning(giving me a chance to chrono some handloads at the same time) but plans to use my usual range have been scuppered by a horsey event.

    Would anyone with a suitable safe shooting area in West Dorset be willing to host us?

    I am ex mil and NRA RCO qualified so you don't have to worry where safety is concerned.

    If I can return the favor with pre DSC2 coaching or Witnessing I would be more than willing to do this (although it would have to be on your own permission).


    Thanks folks.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackleberry270 View Post
    Its a long shot (scuse the pun). I offered a Newbie to the site a chance to shoot a target tomorrow morning(giving me a chance to chrono some handloads at the same time) but plans to use my usual range have been scuppered by a horsey event.

    Would anyone with a suitable safe shooting area in West Dorset be willing to host us?

    I am ex mil and NRA RCO qualified so you don't have to worry where safety is concerned.

    If I can return the favor with pre DSC2 coaching or Witnessing I would be more than willing to do this (although it would have to be on your own permission).


    Thanks folks.
    On reading this I tried to imagine circumstances where a FAC Holder could hand over a rifle to a 'newbie' to have a bang ... (my assumption here) this person being a novice or a complete beginner ... on someone else's land. This would be land on which the FAC holder didn't hold the sporting rights - and so - not have the usual rights to zero his rifle there.

    Then I wondered what 'extra' assurance would be given by someone who was ex-military and had passed his NRA RCO qualification at some point (this lapses after 6 years).

    I looked at the estate rifle 'exemption' clause which many think is in general use. This seems to apply to visiting foreign stalkers on sporting estates in Scotland e.g. say in the situation where the estate employed stalker gets the guest into a shootable position from a stag - then hands the rifle over for the shot. Whatever it's purpose, it doesn't seem applicable in the OP's situation.

    Then I looked at the standard Firearms Act - Conditions.

    The newbie couldn't claim to be shooting for any sporting purpose on land. Only the FAC holder could claim to be there for zeroing or practice, and would be authorised to do so on his FAC.

    Even if the newbie could claim to be 'Target Shooting' - this is only permissible on Approved Ranges as an HOAC member. For this purpose, no shooting is allowed over private land unless an open certificate is held by the individual. Possession of expanding ammunition is also prohibited for target shooters, and for target shooting use.

    I've pasted the relevant bits below. Just where does someone get the notion that he can take out a stranger, hand him a high-velocity rifle (possibly loaded with prohibited ammunition), and allow him to shoot? Other people, even non-shooters, may read this, and think that there's some sort of free for all to take anyone out as long as you've got ground of your own. This has been posted by a DSC2 holder which I'm not, so if I've missed something please put me on the right track.

    Borrowed rifles on private premises

    6.16Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a personto borrow a rifle from the occupier
    of privatepremises and to use it on those premises in the presence of either the
    occupier ortheir servant without holding a firearmcertificate in respect of that rifle.

    It should benoted that this gives slightly more flexibility in the use of a borrowed riflethan is permissible with the use of a shot gun as described in paragraph 6.14,in that the
    borrowedrifle can also be used in the presence of the servant of the occupier.

    However, theoccupier and/or their servant must hold a firearm certificate in respect of
    the firearmbeing used, and the borrower, who must be accompanied by the certificate
    holder(whether it is the occupier or their servant), must comply with the conditions
    of thecertificate. These may include a safekeeping requirement and, in some cases,
    territorialrestrictions. Section 57(4) of the 1968 Act defines “premises” as including any
    land. Theeffect of the provision is to allow a person visiting a private estate toborrow
    and use arifle without a certificate. The exemption does not extend to persons under
    the age of17 or to other types of firearm.

    There is nonotification required on the loan of a firearm under these circumstances.
    A borrowedrifle should not be specifically identified as such on a “keeper’s” or
    “landowner’s”firearm certificate. The term “in the presence of” is not defined in law
    but isgenerally interpreted as being within sight and earshot.

    6.17Section 16(2) of the 1988 Act provides fora person borrowing a rifle in accordance
    with section16(1) of the 1988 Act to purchase or acquire ammunition for use in the rifle,and to have it in their possession during the period for which the rifle is borrowed,without holding a certificate. The borrower’s possession of the ammunition mustcomply with the conditions on the certificate of the person in whose presence theyare and the amount of ammunition borrowed must not exceed that which the certificateholder is authorised to have in their possession at that time. It should be notedthat the borrower may only take possession of the ammunition during the periodof the loan of the rifle at which time they will be in the presence of thecertificate holder

    (FIREARMS CERTIFICATE CONDITIONS)


    Quarry Shooting (for vermin, fox or deer)

    The *calibreRIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUND MODERATOR and ammunition shall be used for shootingvermin and ground game/fox/deer (delete as appropriate) and for zeroing onranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area wherethe land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority toshoot.

    Target Shooting

    The *calibre*RIFLE/MUZZLELOADING PISTOL/REVOLVER and ammunition shall be used for target shooting,and only whilst a member of *club1, on ranges where a safety certificate forthat class of firearm has been issued by the Ministry of Defence.

    Insert name of Home Office Approved Shooting Club.


    Expanding Ammunition

    The certificate holder may possess, purchaseor acquire expanding ammunition,
    or themissiles of such ammunition, in the calibres authorised by this certificate and
    use only inconnection with:

    (a) thelawful shooting of deer;

    (b) theshooting of vermin or, in connection with the management of any estate, otherwildlife;

    (c) thehumane killing of animals;

    (d)the shooting of animals for the protection of other animals or humans.
    If I'm going to be accused of it then it's just as well I did it.

  3. #3
    Zeroing (rather than target shooting) with expanding ammo is ok on most peoples certificates. That's one point countered. Rest of the challenges I will leave to someone else to contest.

  4. #4
    As well as zeroing you are allowed to practice & train with expanding ammo that you have been authorised to possess for sporting purposes, this may be on a paper target. atb Tim

  5. #5
    Before this goes off on a tangent if anyone would be kind enough to accomodate then just send me a PM.


    In the mean time...... enjoy the discussion.

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member 223's Avatar
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    give the chap a break he was only trying to help out a newbie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #7
    Yea I agree with 223 and good luck Tackleberry

  8. #8
    Sorry i could'nt help out keep in touch.
    Luke

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by lukejr175 View Post
    Sorry i could'nt help out keep in touch.
    Luke
    Was good to catch up. Good luck tomorrow.

  10. #10
    It is probably worth noting. Apart from the obvious assumptions made by Sinistral (which are wrong), It is common practice to see a 'new' client shoot a zeroing target, with estate rifle, before heading out for live quarry. This can't always be carried out on the same estate as the stalking is taking place and it would be naive to think that cooperation between stalkers does not go on to accomodate this.

    I am always willing to learn!

    Estate rifle clause is not limited to Scotland.

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