B.f.d ??

6pointer

Well-Known Member
Why dont the English police forces take a lead from the scottish way and give open certs from the out set.????

David
 
Because theyve got more brains David... Im glad they dont....

Apply for your fac then race off out to the country, no training, safety etc

Bit off subject this but..... Its great living here in Poole one of the busiest RNLI stations in the country...

Buy a big boat jump in it.. no training.... Run a swimmer over, hit a jet ski, slam into the harbour or run aground as the harbours average depth is 18 inches.....

Its just so funny because such a large majority of the incidents are witnessed by so many....

Unlike the countryside!!!
 
just because the land is cleared does it make it safe no , so there for the whole open / close ticket is pointless but i suppose better to have a few rules rather then no ticket at all
 
ps Is on the money and Mr Sniper is way off dead is dead.22 or 300win. But when you limit a deer stalker you cause many more problems than if you give him an ope ticket. If you dont trust the chap at the out set then don't give him a firearm. If you would like him to train eg do the BASC assessment lev one then say so but don't hold his ticket and create a situation were he might brake the law to follow his passion.
 
i have a closed ticket and yes a little frustrating but i truly believe its for the best as said above anyone can just get a licence and go of out shooting in countryside (with verbal) and shoot foxes rabbits etc

but the big thing is learning back stops where housing estates are and so so .243 will travel 1500m i think that is a long distace when looking over ground so yes closd tickets are good to get you to learn this is why we have provitional driving licence so we can learn then we pass a test and let loose on our own

i learn from the older guys i shoot with everytime i go out different things ad hopefully ill get mine in the future no rush as i can still go out and be lamp man and watch and stalk use estate rifles with the guys i stalk with no biggy
 
Why dont the English police forces take a lead from the scottish way and give open certs from the out set.????

David


Well Having read all the comments so far on this thread I have to separate two issues; a) open -v- closed certificates and b) land checks

Firstly BASC's view is a person has to be licensed not the gun, caliber, cartridge size or species etc. you are either safe to shoot a rifle or not and the police will wish to determine experience of the applicant. Home Office guidance says: "It is desirable that new applicants should have some previous experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles." However it is not their place to trade experience in terms of handling experience to that of ability in the world of deer stalking, ecology, carcass handling etc.

If a person has been granted a rifle then conditions should not be given based on land suitability; however conditions have been proliferated since the original 1969 guidance document which said they should only be applied in exceptional circumstances where there ws a genuine need to control a certificate holders behaviour. Land size/type does not matter in terms of public safety, it is an applicant’s ability to take a safe shot every time that is the factor in determining whether to grant or not.

ACPO's Firearms Licensing Working Group accepts that "Relevant experience is not caliber or ammunition type exclusive. It may include the shooting of any quarry species. The aspect that police are looking to be satisfied about is the competency of the applicant to take a safe shot every time. The shooting of any quarry requires a safe backstop for the shot, and such experience is translatable between quarry species.”

For example; nonsense refusals for larger centrefire calibers where the applicant has rim-fire and has been taking safe shots for some time should not happen.

We feel land checks are a waste of time as you can have an accident equally on 20 acres of 40,000 hectares regardless of being a newcomer or long time shooter. We hope the Scottish view permeates south.

Hope this helps
 
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i have a closed ticket and yes a little frustrating but i truly believe its for the best as said above anyone can just get a licence and go of out shooting in countryside (with verbal) and shoot foxes rabbits etc

How does a closed ticket in any way help public safety? North Yorkshire give open tickets and it means I can go shooting with anyone or anywhere I have permission. It's all very simple.
 
I now have an open certificate but I'm glad I wasn't given one to start with:

I'd target shot for many years before getting my FAC for hunting, but when I first started going out with my rimfires I would have had no business shooting in some of the places I now feel confident to do so.

There's a lot of adrenalin and excitement when you first start venturing out with your new rifles on new land, and that's not always the best recipe for a considered shot! - Once you're through the honeymoon period, whilst it still get's your heart pumping you are undeniably thinking more about what you are doing... more importantly you have built up the experience of how you and your rifle react to different conditions in the field.

In my opinion the current way of waiting for a couple of years before granting an open licence is the right way to be doing it.
 
How does a closed ticket in any way help public safety? North Yorkshire give open tickets and it means I can go shooting with anyone or anywhere I have permission. It's all very simple.

My closed ticket allowed me to go out with anyone anywhere... as long as the land had been approved - The only reason you need an "open ticket" is if you want to start shooting smaller, flatter, or more populated shoots (or for going abroad etc).
 
My closed ticket allowed me to go out with anyone anywhere... as long as the land had been approved - The only reason you need an "open ticket" is if you want to start shooting smaller, flatter, or more populated shoots (or for going abroad etc).
cant get much flatter then the fens high seats sort that problem same with size of land still doest stop unsafe shots wheather they have open ticket or closed the land could be clear but there is still a horizen somewhere, this is my point no risk has been taken away when a closed ticket is given
 
cant get much flatter then the fens high seats sort that problem same with size of land still doest stop unsafe shots wheather they have open ticket or closed the land could be clear but there is still a horizen somewhere, this is my point no risk has been taken away when a closed ticket is given

I do see your point but I'm not sure it doesn't decrease risk... it limits the places new people can shoot, and makes it a hell of a lot easier to convict someone if they take a stupid shot (if they shouldn't be shooting there)
 
I don't 'get' the fact that land can be intrinsically safe or not. Every single time you pull the trigger you have to weigh up whether it is safe. Every single bit of land that is cleared will have safe and unsafe shots.

What if you go with a friend shooting. How do you know that every bit of land is cleared for your calibre. What if you have a drive about and shoot on land belonging to half a dozen different farmers? Do you 'trust' your mate's word? Ask the farmer? Ring the police and check every bit?

It's silly, land is not intrinsically safe or not. If you are fit to be entrusted with a firearm you should be fit to know what is, and what isn't, a safe shot. Period.
 
I don't 'get' the fact that land can be intrinsically safe or not. Every single time you pull the trigger you have to weigh up whether it is safe. Every single bit of land that is cleared will have safe and unsafe shots.

What if you go with a friend shooting. How do you know that every bit of land is cleared for your calibre. What if you have a drive about and shoot on land belonging to half a dozen different farmers? Do you 'trust' your mate's word? Ask the farmer? Ring the police and check every bit?

It's silly, land is not intrinsically safe or not. If you are fit to be entrusted with a firearm you should be fit to know what is, and what isn't, a safe shot. Period.

I agree it's the person and not the land that's safe, but if everyone had open tickets I'm sure there would be a lot more accidents - yes if they trust you with a firearm then that should be the end of it, but it's usually based on a 1 hour interview and your application form... which doesn't really make them trust you 100% eh? Just enough to think "he's not nuts as far as I know, seems sensible and knows what a backstop is but never been out with him so who knows!"

I've shot with people at bisley I wouldn't trust to shoot on my smaller shoots - they're good shots and safe at the range, but have never gotten used to the idea of considering things like how hard the ground is etc
 
I agree to an extent that restrictions should be placed on a "complete novice" but the bit I don't get is when everytime you apply for a bigger caliber or ask for another species to be added you start from scratch again... closed ticket and mentor condition.
 
I agree to an extent that restrictions should be placed on a "complete novice" but the bit I don't get is when everytime you apply for a bigger caliber or ask for another species to be added you start from scratch again... closed ticket and mentor condition.

Really?! Well yeah that is bloody stupid - I think this makes sense somewhat in the leap from rimfire to centrefire, but once you've had centrefire a year or so (and clearly used it) then on the next variation they should give you an open ticket.
 
I kid you not I already had .17hmr and .223 on open ticket, when I applied for .243 for deer it came back closed with a mentor... It's all sorted now mind, but oh the fun I had getting it removed.
 
The fact is you need a ticket in the first place to get out or be mentored etc

Anybody that thinks the first ticket should be an open one with no training so you can hit the country and blast away has got it all wrong imo
 
That is your opinion PS and no doubt you will stick with it. For me if you are given a firearm then you are deemed a fit and proper person end of.
 
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