Mineral Deficient

pheasant sniper 1

Well-Known Member
Hi Guys

Out today for a walk on land that has some of the best Sika in the Poole Basin with my camera i came upon an emaciated yearling.

The events and thorts on it consumed what would have been a great dive this evening so i welcome your replies on the incident..

I have pictures but cant get them on the site. Its ribs, spine and pelvis were hanging out and had diorea. It was in such bad condition that i came out from cover, and on approaching it was unable to run or walk away collapsing just looking at me inches away.

I despatched the animal with a fence post that i found after looking nearby as didnt want it disappearing back into the reed beds for a slow death and my camera was the only other thing being carried..

So this leads to my first question.. I then went to the estate office to inform them of my actions and where the animal was located.. They accepted without question my actions and after taking my details got in touch with the estate deer manager..
I know the name of the Deer manager for the estate but am not known to him yet gave my number incase he wanted to contact me..

He did ring me and i explained my actions. i also gave some names of people as it happens he new well in an effort to show i am a genuine person and i felt i needed to give myself some legitimacy because of how the call was taking shape.. It was a straight talking call..

How would you guys feel if somebody walking on an estate you manage yet with permission( my permission is to be on the estate not shoot on it ) acted in the way i did??

During the phone call i asked that if he didnt mind i would like more information about the diseased animal from the gralloch.. His reply is that in the lower field there is a mineral deficiency.. Obviously i am out of my depth here but i was told the animal would no longer be able to feed and the condition would naturally deteriorate worsening over time ..

What i cant understand is two fields down there are some of the most magnificent Sika in the country. Huge well conditioned and healthy.. The sika on the estate are in large groups however this animal was solitary

All replies welcome on the site but if somebody would like to pm me ref photos.. Ive got as far as photobucket but cant get them on the site

Terry
 
In my mind you were right to dispatch. In fact its a crime that the deer management hadn't dispatched it already. Managed areas l know of are watched constantly for any sign of problems like this -

Being as you described - it could be as serious as Yersinosis (a problem with the intestines - which has the same affects as what you have described or something far less sinister like it poisoned itself by accident.

Either way the Deer Manager wouldn't like to hear whatver you have to say (the old my land keep off attitude...which probably explains why you probably got fobbed off and dealt with rather roughly!

I've had the same when speaking to a private owner (and his manager) of a red herd in a small local park, some were dying of old age and they couldn't understand why!

T
 
Not sure if this helps but I had the misfortune to watch at close quarters an animal with the symptoms that you describe. I never got to the bottom of it and the herd the animal came from is looking good. This is what I came up with.

http://www.wildlifeonline.me.uk/questions_answers_deer.html

During the process of looking into this issue, I found a local firm
(burton on trent, staffordshire) that makes supplement and feed blocks for livestock. I have used their feed blocks for sheep before and they love it. What I didnt know is that they also make a deer block. I have included a link to their website which does not show the block, but they do make it. I have several of them and I can tell you Red deer like them. This is a feed block not a mineral block and is designed to ensure that the deer are able to survive on poor grazing especially in winter.

http://www.rumenco.co.uk/index.html

Its a 20 kilo block and cost around £12. It strikes me that this is a better option than just an attractant.
 
In my mind you were right to dispatch. In fact its a crime that the deer management hadn't dispatched it already. Managed areas l know of are watched constantly for any sign of problems like this -

Tommo,
Its not really a crime if the estate has not seen the animal before.

The fact is, the deer was suffering and you put it out of its misery. Not a pleasant way to do it but needs must.

J
 
Terry this is a difficult one to answer but I'll try:

You have clearly not endeared yourself [no pun intended] to the deer manager of the estate.

To dispatch a deer with a fence post "could" leave you open to criticism from some quarters regarding unnecessary suffering as in could be construed you "clubbed" it to death.

Were you out of mobile range? How far away were you from the estate office? Why did you not try to call for assistance before attempting despatch with a fence post?

In some quarters it matters not you intent or actions, more weight is given to the perception of your actions [which can be very different believe me] and perhaps the deer manager thinks you have over stepped the mark and took matters into your own hands before calling him?

Perhaps after a suitable period of time call the Deer manager, apologise for any misunderstanding and offer to meet him/her for a pint and a chat? Better that than letting his/her views of you grow stronger if they are negative?

Just my 2cents....

RF
 
Hi all and thanks for replys..

Thanks howa243 the links added greatly to my learning curve..

Jingzy.. My only concern was making sure this deer suffered no more. Thanks for your reply. I felt under the circumstances it was akin to coming upon a severely injured deer on the road and ending its suffering..

Rangefinder.. Thanks for your comments. I did club the emaciated deer to death after sitting with it for a few minutes and talking to it and taking photos, whilst that sounds horrific i believe my actions were wholly justified by the extreme condition and extent of disease that was rife.. The willingness with which it went to sleep supported a very dificult and extreme decision..
I did not call for assistance as was concerned that he may make the reed beds and after reflection believe it was still the right action.

I will attempt to speak to the estate deer manager in the hope that howa243 link may infact be of interest to him aswell..

I will try and get the photos up.. Thanks for your comments

Regards

Terry
 
They say a photo never lies ,
going by the photos i would say you did the right thing sleep easy, show the deer manager the photos. It would/has changed my mind of the situation, i manage an estates deer population.

ATB cervushunter
 
Terry

I was not judging you so if I gave that impression, sorry, I was merely trying to show another view/way of looking at it, one that is all too sadly jumped to in some quarters and one that has been applied to me with devastating consequences.

Hope it goes well for you.

YIS

RF
 
I think you had the beasts best interest at heart. I think anyone reading this can see that.
 
Terry
i'm sure you might of mulled this over in your mind a few times
but this i feel you might hav overstepped a mark here
i agree the deer needed to be treated either medicaly or PTS
personally my actions would of been to take the pics as you hav as that was priority :confused:
then approach the estate or deer manager to tell them of what you hav seen,
then thats it
you hav done all you can from thier
but you took matters into your own hands
as i said
i hav no doubt the deer was in trouble
but with out proper consent or an appropiate means of destruction/despatch
you decided you to take things into your own hands
then approach the estate afterwards :confused:
to tell them what you hav done
this now is not just about deer welfare now
but about the integrity of the estate and how it is perceived and ran, and also about if the deer manager is their job right
not sure how clubbing a deer to death is going to be construved in the public eye by a person who is classing themself as a deer stalker if only by recreation purposes , heck not what i call a an act of kindness
but i do hav a few questions

(1) why did you feel the need to take such pics first of all and at quite close range , as you felt this deer would get away if you had not despatched it, but it stayed there to hav a picture taken
why not despatch it first as you say you were taking the deer's health into cosideration not the camera's
(2) why did you not contact the estate first of all to tell them about the sick animal before you despatched it instead of afterwards as you must of had a number from somewhere
(3) why hav you posted this this on a world wide open forum for all to see and digest
putting the estate's in question reputation at jeopardy and also their deer managers job potentially on the line on which could be just a one off
as you say they hav some of the best sika ground in Dorset
(4) what were you hoping to gain from this post??

this may be one of the very reason why most estates hate public walking all over their ground
By taking the law into your own hands has probaly has caused more harm than good
if the deer manager and estate do not prevent you from accessing the estate again then you hav been very lucky indeed

what you did might of been right in your eyes but does nothing for all those geniune stalkers that are out there that abide by the laws of justice and by animal welfare , that may very well be tarred with this brush
this is trully one sad day for all concerned
your self included

Grant
i'm sorry to see you hav such a deer in that condition
as you hav good ground with good grazing plus you treat and feed your deer well
i hav seen and witnessed that with my own eyes
a one off i hope and not genetic
catch up soon
 
Hi Stone

Every now and then a controversial post comes up on the forum. What is controversial or distasteful for some can be of interest/benefit for others.
I am sure from this post if another site member found him or herself in a similar situation the replies may help or guide the judgement made therefore making a genuine post worthwhile and possibly helpfull wether it is to your personal liking or not. The replies and links all add to peoples learning curves.

Surely the site is all the better for the diversity and interest of posts rather than staying in a "yes man" club. You only have to look at numbers of views on some posts in the hundreds to maybe ten replies.

As you can see from replies there are more that agree with my actions than disagree.. However i am sure there are those that viewed but didnt reply that will agree with you

Answering your questions..

1. The photos were taken as i was looking at the condition of the deer and mulling over what type of disease it was suffering from. All the time pondering on the right thing to do.

I was unsure on approaching the estate if a truly hostile reception awaited and possibly a lot of trouble but in my own mind i had done the right thing and rather than make off was prepared to stand by what i had done and hope on explaining things with the "aid of the photos" they might be sympathetic. Also and more relevant if there was anything the estate needed to be allerted to ie on gralloch a .22 in the gut so poachers on the ground..

As it happens they were absolutely understanding and very interested in the photos and not a bad word was said..

2. I did not have the estate phone number at the time.. We both have each others now..

3. I did not mention the estates name or stalkers name and fortunately there are more than a few good sika estates in Dorset so no reputations or jobs at stake. One diseased deer on a transitory estate imho would never reflect on any managers professionalism.

4. Why does a site member have to gain something from a post ? There are many people yourself included on here that help others with no gain for themselves with stalking etc.
I new the post was controversial and having faced the estate and spoken with the deer manager wanted to put it to friends and members on a forum for their opinions as having spent the night diving all the scenarios were still troubling me..

We had a thread not long back on coming upon an injured deer in the road and those that were prepared to end its suffering rather than wait the hour or two for the designated stalker to turn up and despatch. Your post indicates a call to police and some photos mean youve done all you can.. I disagree and would make my own call judging the severity of injury myself and taking action that i could sleep well on..
Are the two really that diferent after looking at the photos?

Hope that answers your questions a bit more satisfactory stone.
Maybe we will agree to disagree on this one
I have no regrets on the post and am thankfull of all replies and hope it has been of interest/help
Howa243 link was of great interest to me..

Regards

Terry
 
Terry
yes your answers more than satisfy my queries
as i hope they will do others that just watch this site
some of them will never be satisfied thou
as for my quote you will see i did remove it before you posted your response as i felt what i had commented was unjust and not appropiate
to you or this posting
so please except my apologies for that statement
as every week at work, i usualy encounter something different which the general public has done or taken actions over
when they are just invited guests onto the grounds
so now i look at it all from all angles
controversial post
maybe
certainly an eye opener for some and learning curve for yourself
but i do feel it is often better to wait 10 mins to asses ,than to rush straight in
because the legal complications of our actions will far outweigh a few extra minutes that we wait for the appropiate help to arrive
i came upon such an RTC a few weeks back no-one had a phone or new who to call if they did
probaly the police
if i had made a hash of despatching that deer or onlookers were offended by my actions what could the resulting judgement be


i hope all works out well for you in the end with out further implications

regards
 
Hi Stone

Thanks for reply

I appreciated and was respectfull of your view and comments and therefore have edited my reply

I am able to see both sides

ATB

Terry
 
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