Open / closed?

VSS

Well-Known Member
Sorry to be posting the same question as is asked so often, but I couldn't find an answer in the FAQ at the top of the page.

My first FAC, for .22LR, included the words "...may be used on land deemed suitable by the Chief Officer of Police for the area where the land is situated, and where the holder has permission...etc etc..".
No query there. Clearly closed.

When I had it opened it was changed to simply read: "..may be used on land where the holder has permission...etc etc"
No query there either. Clearly open.

Now, I've just had my certificate back after variation for .243, and the conditions for the .243 reads: "...may be used on land deemed suitable for the use of this type of firearm, and where the holder has permission..etc etc.."

No mention of the Chief Officer of Police. So, is that open or closed?

Maybe the BASC team can give a definitive answer? (I am a member :D)
 
I would treat it as open, although to me it looks like a clerical error and a hybrid between the two conditions.

No mention of cheif constable so you can make the decision whether the land is "suitable for the use of this type of firearm" ;)

Rock the boat and you may find it closed!
 
Well, that's the way I read it, but it seemed a little bit too good to be true!
My first centrefire, and I get open conditions for foxes, deer and feral goats!!!!!

That sort of thing doesn't happen, does it?
 
VSS- my ticket reads the same, deemed suitable, and I had had an open previously with dyfed powys, and was told by North Wales it was open as no mention of the chief!

ENJOY!
 
Last edited:
Sorry to be posting the same question as is asked so often, but I couldn't find an answer in the FAQ at the top of the page.

My first FAC, for .22LR, included the words "...may be used on land deemed suitable by the Chief Officer of Police for the area where the land is situated, and where the holder has permission...etc etc..".
No query there. Clearly closed.

When I had it opened it was changed to simply read: "..may be used on land where the holder has permission...etc etc"
No query there either. Clearly open.

Now, I've just had my certificate back after variation for .243, and the conditions for the .243 reads: "...may be used on land deemed suitable for the use of this type of firearm, and where the holder has permission..etc etc.."

No mention of the Chief Officer of Police. So, is that open or closed?

Maybe the BASC team can give a definitive answer? (I am a member :D)

sounds like a dodgy draft, with the absence of "who" deems it suitable its arguable. You could take the view that its open but the police could argue its closed. It needs attending to by the licensing dept one way or another.

i say this as its the police with the upper hand and who will summons you to court. If your .243 is the latest and highest calibre then it is likely their intention was to leave it closed as this is the standard (but pointless) practice.
 
One of the stipulations about conditions is that they have to be clear. If the condition doesn't clearly state what it is forbidding, then how can you be "in breach of" it?

"I deem it to be suitable for this calibre, therefore it is deemed to be suitable". Any other interpretation is going to be an exceedingly hard sell!
 
One of the stipulations about conditions is that they have to be clear. If the condition doesn't clearly state what it is forbidding, then how can you be "in breach of" it?

"I deem it to be suitable for this calibre, therefore it is deemed to be suitable". Any other interpretation is going to be an exceedingly hard sell!

In theory yes but whatever is written as a condition is actionable by the police if they believe you have failed to comply with it. So if you have a condition like the stupid ones sussex use "from an elevated position" we areadvising members that standing is elevated from ground level or even sea level as the condition doesnt state where your measuring point begins. Also whats a high seat? The police font check where you cite them or set rules on hiw high they must be, you could i suppose sit on a bar stool!

My point is that the police could say your high seat is only 6 feet when they envisaged 7' plus, your nicked. But as i said earlier the judge is likely to get very hacked off about silly wording. They will look at whether the condition was properly worded to avoid ambiguity on behalf of the person to which impinges and whether the condition was applied to deal with a demonstrable need to control behaviour.
 
Last edited:
Well from the previous posts in the thread it seems I'm not the only one with that wording.

Funny thing is, I 'phoned the NWP firearms dept a few days ago, just to find out how my application was progressing, and the lass that answered the 'phone said "wow, that is a coincidence, I'm actually in the middle of typing your conditions now. I'll put it in the post first class as soon as it's done".
Maybe the interuption put her out of her stride, and she left a few words out?

Anyway, the general concensus on here seems to imply that it's open, but I note what you're saying, BASC, and appreciate the heads up to the effect that my / our interpretation might not be the way it was meant to be interpreted.
 
I'd have thought an 'elevated position' is any shooting position other than prone, since prone would be at ground level.

Mind you, it could also mean you can't shoot anywhere at sea level or below, or that you can only shoot from the highest hill in the force area, or the highest point on your permission.

The condition is illogical, and any reasonable person would not understand what the condition means, so I would have to get it clarified in writing before contacting someone like the BASC Firearms Department, or a similar department run by your insuring organisation.
 
Last edited:
sounds like a dodgy draft, with the absence of "who" deems it suitable its arguable. You could take the view that its open but the POLICE COULD ARGUE ITS CLOSED. It needs attending to by the licensing dept one way or another.

i say this as its the police with the upper hand and who will summons you to court. If your .243 is the latest and highest calibre then it is likely their intention was to leave it closed as this is the standard (but pointless) practice.

I don't believe it to be a dodgy draft as i also have similar wording from the same dept on my fac. Could it be possible that it is worded that way deliberately so as to provide the licencing dept with more rear end protection,God forbid, should an incident occur?

Or am i being to cynical.:-|
Thanks,
Fatty
 
I have often had a fresh calibre come back as "Closed", along with a half dozen other open deer cals.:eek:, a phone call to have it dealt with usually suffices.
 
I don't believe it to be a dodgy draft as i also have similar wording from the same dept on my fac. Could it be possible that it is worded that way deliberately so as to provide the licencing dept with more rear end protection,God forbid, should an incident occur?

Or am i being to cynical.:-|
Thanks,
Fatty

Fatty, do you consider your ticket to be open or closed with that wording?
 
Fatty, do you consider your ticket to be open or closed with that wording?

I'm under the impression that I deem the land suitable and that it's an open ticket. However after comments from basc, I may well be wrong.
Cheers
Fatty.
 
Back
Top