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Thread: When's stalking not stalking (or, who watches the watchers)?

  1. #1

    When's stalking not stalking (or, who watches the watchers)?

    The recent thread on compulsory DSC 2 made me think about a conversation I recently had with a friend of mine. This part of the tale is third-hand (I know, I know), so no names or places, but I'm confident it isn't far off the mark.

    An acquaintance of my friend recently failed his level 2 due to the assessor considering 2 of the outings as 'not stalking' and therefore failing to meet the stalking requirement of the DSC Level 2. These were outlined to me as follows:-

    1. The candidate 'stalked' to within 100yds of a roe buck and doe that were messing around near some cover. By the time the candidate and witness got to a suitable shooting position the deer had decided to have a lie down in or around the bush. They knew both deer were still there so waited, and a little over an hour later the buck presented himself and was duly shot. As the candidate had waited for a long time before shooting, the assessor did not consider this to have been a 'stalk'. FAIL!!

    2. While out stalking, the candidate spots a deer in a neighbouring field slowly making its way back towards the wood. They 'stalk' to a place overlooking the area they expect the animal to enter the wood. After a short while the deer appears and is cleanly shot. Ambushing is NOT stalking, according to the assessor. FAIL!!

    So, do these outings meet level 2 requirements or not? This poor chap now has to fork out for another 2 stalks and resubmit.

    My friend also said about an incident that happened to himself (only second-hand this time). He had an assessor contact him to quiz him over a level 2 he'd done with a client. After a successful shot my friend had asked the candidate what they would've done had the animal shown itself to be still alive on the approach? The candidate had answered that they would've shot it again had it appeared mobile/still a lot of life left or, if near death, conducted a thoracic stick to quicken death before carrying out the gralloch. The assessor asked about the thoracic sticking, so my friend explained what the candidate had meant and how they had accurately pointed to the part of the beast which would receive the knife and how he, as a professional, was happy with the answer. The assessor kept on quizzing and my friend couldn't understand what more there was to say when it became clear from the assessor himself; he had no idea what a thoracic stick was, had never heard of it and was confused as to where such a procedure had come from!!! If my memory serves me right it's covered in Level 1 isn't it? And this bloke, as an assessor, is supposed to be top of the tree!

    Who watches the watchers?

    Wolfie

  2. #2
    what a joke
    lister

  3. #3
    DMQ watches the watchers as I understand it - now some may call me naive here but a query should be made to DMQ to check what the assessor is and is not allowed to classify as a "stalk". It all sounds a little far fetched and as you say is third-hand, but if there are assessors out there who are not maintaining the high standard set by the majority then DMQ should know about it.

    It's like I say in my job (I.T. Technician) if we don't know there is a problem, we can't fix it - they need to tell the DMQ.
    Beretta Silver Pigeon 20 Bore
    Browing X-Bolt Stainless Stalker - 30-06
    Countryside Management Diary - http://www.leagueofwrath.co.uk/cmblog/

  4. #4
    Name please so that nobody else books level2 with this clown

    I know people who've done level 2 stalks in a deer park
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  5. #5
    You cannot fail your L2 ICRs. You can only meet the criteria or not, so the assessor only signs off on the completed elements, and then you go back to complete those elements not up to standard - on a seperate outing, until all elements, in all 3 ICRs are completed.

    If your friend is unhappy with his AWs perfomance, then the AW is accountable to the organisation used for the portfolio, ie BDS, BASC etc. He needs to put it in writing asap, and get a second opinion from the internal verifier, but I imagine the way that will go......

    If he is still unhappy, then he needs to find another AW, get his portfolio back, and crack on......

    IMVHO - It would have shown more skill, and ability ( which is what L2 is about ) to change tactics, withdraw and re-stalk in on that area, than to wait `an hour` for a shot - even if he did that well.... Only my opinion though based on the info in the OP.

    The AW cannot assist, guide, or teach, so they can only assess on what they observe.....

    L2 is about gaining experience, so tell your friend it is not deemed as failure if an ICR is not perfect. Learn from it and do better next time. Don`t take L2 personally, it can make you start second guessing. The AWs want to see competence, confidence, and reasonable skill, well displayed, in a variety of different situations / conditions.

    All the best.

    Neil.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    Name please so that nobody else books level2 with this clown

    I know people who've done level 2 stalks in a deer park
    Nothing wrong with that at all, as long as only the relevant criteria involved are signed off - ie the `stalking` bit. However, much depends on the size of the park - it ain`t as easy as people think.... especially if the targeted animal is one of many !!! After all the act of shooting, gralloching, inspection elements of the ICR only depend on getting in to, and successfully culling a deer.... You still gotta perform...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by NeilG View Post
    Nothing wrong with that at all, as long as only the relevant criteria involved are signed off - ie the `stalking` bit. However, much depends on the size of the park - it ain`t as easy as people think.... especially if the targeted animal is one of many !!! After all the act of shooting, gralloching, inspection elements of the ICR only depend on getting in to, and successfully culling a deer.... You still gotta perform...
    Agreed, which is why I'll be doing my L2 ICR's in a park (when I eventually get my arse into gear).... why waste money on multiple outings when you can virtually guarantee to get it done in a day? I mean, it's bad enough all this talk about compulsory qualification... it doesn't need to cost a fortune.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  8. #8
    Id have said at the point the animals laid up the 'stalk' was over and could have been written up as such.
    Nothing then wrong with proceeding to take one of the laid up deer when they later presented themselves thus completing the shot assessment and follow up criteria.
    However, as youve stated, this is third hand and may have suffered in its transfer.
    Ultimately its the candidates portfolio and he should have the ability to identify and complete the relevant elements.
    Below is a link to my website.
    Quad sticks

  9. #9
    If I was him I would be writing a stern letter to DMQ

    I shot a stag in October that walked to within 40 yds of us when we roared at it. I still had to get within 100yds of the spot it was lying down.
    Last Roe buck I shot came to within 30 yds of where we had walked in, I didnt stalk the last 60, it ran towards me!

    by your AW's standard those wouldn't count?

  10. #10
    1 & 2 should have been signed off exept for the stalking part, if the AW did not consider the stalk to the shooting position not to be correct, the only thing your friend would have to do again would be the stalk which he could do anywhere.
    But If what you have posted is true I would have signed both of them off. (AW with the BDS )
    Last edited by sikadog; 06-02-2013 at 16:11.
    AT THE AGE OF 50 I DECIDED I WAS GOING TO GROW OLD F***ING DISGRACEFULLY

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