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Thread: syndicate costs

  1. #1

    syndicate costs

    Is it just me or are syndicates to blame for the constant rising costs for leases. Ive just looked at the 1 on ebay and this got me thinking again.... Ok now I understand that 1/2 dozen mates could all chip in and split the cost of a 3k lease for 500 each. But in todays climate what would they get for that money??? Perhaps 800 acres and certainley perhaps not overly good. Realisticly if it had Red and Roe the lads may get a Red and 2 or 3 Roe for their money each.. I know that recently a forestry mnager was bragging he could get 7.20 plus vat per hectacre minimum all day long as there were too many syndicates looking for ground and would easy pay that sort of money!!! Now Im not trying to knock syndicates by any means or manners. After all Im in 1 and actively looking for another. But Ill only part with my hard earned money for the right syndicate.

    Are wee to blame for the rising costs? I believe we are!! What do you think?


    Nutty

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by nuttyspaniel View Post
    Is it just me or are syndicates to blame for the constant rising costs for leases. Ive just looked at the 1 on ebay and this got me thinking again.... Ok now I understand that 1/2 dozen mates could all chip in and split the cost of a 3k lease for 500 each. But in todays climate what would they get for that money??? Perhaps 800 acres and certainley perhaps not overly good. Realisticly if it had Red and Roe the lads may get a Red and 2 or 3 Roe for their money each.. I know that recently a forestry mnager was bragging he could get 7.20 plus vat per hectacre minimum all day long as there were too many syndicates looking for ground and would easy pay that sort of money!!! Now Im not trying to knock syndicates by any means or manners. After all Im in 1 and actively looking for another. But Ill only part with my hard earned money for the right syndicate.

    Are wee to blame for the rising costs? I believe we are!! What do you think?


    Nutty
    I was in a syndicate years ago but to be honest I'm more than happy paying for a days stalking, I can go anywhere I like I've been all over the place and I enjoy it more than going to the same old ground no politics to deal with either, I can get quite a few days for 800 and have a very high success rate I've not had a blank day for probably 12 months how many in a syndicate can say that? Having said all that if a syndicate was to become available at a good price for good ground locally I would consider it but the chances of that happening around here are about 1% so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it...

    but to answer the original question yes I believe syndicates are responsible for high lease prices land owners are not daft they no they can push prices up for good ground and people will pay 1000's for good ground that's for sure.....

  3. #3
    I guess it's a difficult one to answer, and I'm sure there will be many answers. However I think that we all suffer rising costs and probably notice them the most in our luxury items. Stalking included. I have always thought that land managers have a difficult path to walk, when one one hand they are looking to manage woodland primarily and deer cost them many pounds over a woodlands cycle then on the other hand have to balance the cost. Then we come into the equation and are prepared to do this work for free so all's well. Then alot of us will do it for free and some think "well I've got a few quid I'll offer to pay for the best ground" and push the others aside. Then land owner thinks "I'll make a few quid out of these bl**dy deer" and starts selling leases. Price goes up. Men with money keep arriving, not enough deer shot so owner sells to pro deer stalker who has to shoot X deer but to make it pay has to take clients and it goes on and on. Now value of deer income exceeds value of lost timber so woodland management goes out of window, poorer sportsmen can't afford to shoot only look at ever increasing number of deer eating trees. Either costs will keep rising or eventually land owners will realize that they have lost many thousands of pounds worth of timber production over 20 years and only gained a small cash crop off the deer. Then we might see some ground opened up to dedicated stalkers or even better DMG's. Just my penny worth.

  4. #4
    Regular Poster
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    People wanting some deer stalking are being pushed to oay as much as thay can, because thay want to go stalking and i you can set up a syndicate with friends and aquaintances who also want a friendly syndicate them you can pay the money that is being asked by the forrest groups because thay know that some one will try to get what thay have to offer, so bothsides are pushing it uppeople desprat for a bit andhaving to form a stdicate and forrest groups knowing there are lots out there who will pay! I think its called supply and demand!.

    ATB Barry

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nuttyspaniel View Post
    Is it just me or are syndicates to blame for the constant rising costs for leases. Ive just looked at the 1 on ebay and this got me thinking again.... Ok now I understand that 1/2 dozen mates could all chip in and split the cost of a 3k lease for 500 each. But in todays climate what would they get for that money??? Perhaps 800 acres and certainley perhaps not overly good. Realisticly if it had Red and Roe the lads may get a Red and 2 or 3 Roe for their money each.. I know that recently a forestry mnager was bragging he could get 7.20 plus vat per hectacre minimum all day long as there were too many syndicates looking for ground and would easy pay that sort of money!!! Now Im not trying to knock syndicates by any means or manners. After all Im in 1 and actively looking for another. But Ill only part with my hard earned money for the right syndicate.

    Are wee to blame for the rising costs? I believe we are!! What do you think?


    Nutty
    why not look at it in a different way
    how much is a days stalking to buy
    how many could you afford if you had a trophy fee on top or buying the culled carcass
    yep paying for stalking is not cheap
    nor is a syndicate place if you tot it all up
    choosing the right syndicate will cost a lost less than a pay for stalk rate

  6. #6
    Some may remember a recent thread I posted looking for one syndicate member . . . between this site and word of mouth I had over 40 interested parties within a couple of days.

    There is a number of factors which dictate the price of a syndicate place . . .

    The main one being in the first instance, the price that the forestry company believe the ground is worth, in the case of the FC that is usually around 100 per deer {roe} ie a cull figure of 20 roe per annum = a MINIMUM asking price of 2000 a year . . split 6 ways = 333.00 quid each - expensive stalking? Good value I would say!!!

    The issue arrises when a syndicate offers 6000.00 for the same bit of ground, it happens all the time, the forestry manager would be a mug to turn it down right? And here the problem lies . . . money makes the world go round, and as things stand with stalking, demand waaaay outstrips supply at the moment {as demonstarted by my advert} . . . and where demand outstrips supply prices will surely rise.

    Unless you own some ground, stalking / shooting is an expensive game . . . but then so is driving a car, going to the cinema, taking the Mrs out for a meal.

    I'm not saying I agree with it, far from it infact, but it is the way of the world, and it aint going to get any cheaper anytime soon unfortunately.
    Last edited by Cadex; 11-02-2013 at 23:55.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by nuttyspaniel View Post

    Are wee to blame for the rising costs? I believe we are!! What do you think?

    Nutty
    Like wot Cadex said, market forces, Law of Supply and Demand

  8. #8
    In the past I've gotten in a couple hunt clubs here in the states . And to be quite honest I don't care for it unless I'm the one in control . If I go and hunt with someone on their place thats good and fine I don't mind doing as they ask , but I don't care to be a part of that if it's a piece of ground I manage .

    The majority of my huntings done on a piece I own with the majority of the remainder being on Federally Managaed land .

    I still have a strong desire to hunt Sika on the Eastern Shore of Maryland more then I do at present . And I've decided I will eventually need to purchase a decent sized chunk for just that purpose . Land for lease there thats worth leasing is way to difficult to get and keep . Better to buy 50-100 acres and do for yourself in my opinion .

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Chanty Wrassler View Post
    Like wot Cadex said, market forces, Law of Supply and Demand
    Agreed.

    The hard facts are that dropping 2-3K isn't a great deal of money for a lot of people - less than many would spend on a holiday; much less than many spend on game shooting -and certainly inside the discretionary spend limits of lots of the kind of people are attracted to it.

    The way I look at it there will always be things I'd like to do that I can afford to -irrespective of what I earn and you have to measure out and cut you cloth accordingly.. its just life.

  10. #10
    Human nature allows you to convince yourself add competition to the mix too.
    Spending money to then be able to something for "free" often sits better in peoples mind than a straight paid for relationship though the cost may be similar.
    Expensive syndicate, travel and accommodation all added up per beast fro your "free" venison is rightly or wrongly easier to except than a paid stalk followed by a trophy fee followed by venison fee. Then there is the doing your own thing compared to being accompanied. All these things added together tempt people to spend more for a syndicate place. Good stalking is worth the money I think, but people see the prices and attribute it to there own land and people who know no better pay well over the odds for poor ground and low numbers just to have somewhere and justify the weapons. Paid stalking with the wrong outfit can feel like a fairground duck shoot and doesn't fit my idea of the 'hunt'. Out of the paid stalking i've done i'd put 2 out of the 5 operators in that bracket.


    I'd love to be able to find a group that would allow actual practical deer management over many years investing in the blood group and seeing the standards develop but finding the opportunity that has such a large tract of land and a knowledgeable person to apprentice has never materialised. People talk a lot about deer management but in my experience most is just number chasing and the relatively small areas held by most syndicates mean any good animals are shot from fear of someone else doing it on neighbouring ground. I doubt that will ever happen and have yet to find a syndicate that has met my needs and has open places, i'm contemplating buying forestry for stalking and supplement pension but could not afford to buy the area need to accomplish the above and would be filling a similar opportunistic role as most syndicates which is disappointing. I hate to see our deer standards go down the same route as many areas in Europe.

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