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Thread: Potential Buyers Of HS or BMH

  1. #1

    Potential Buyers Of HS or BMH

    So I am not accused of hijacking any particular thread, the following was sent to me by our friend, Rudi Van Kets, who you will see is the chairman of the Flemish Society. He has been involved with tracking dogs all his life and scenthounds for the last 25 years. What he has to say is worth listening to if any members are serious about sourcing a scenthound.

    This is posted for information only and SD members have the choice of either acknowledging it or going off and doing their own thing, that is up to them...

    This however is his take on the current situation in this country and abroad.


    "Being a member of Facebook for quite a few months now and taking a
    very keen interest in HS and BMHS (I am the Chairman of the Flemish
    deer dog
    Society) I have watched with some puzzlement the occasional posts
    regarding HS and their pedigrees.

    It may be useful for potential buyers if I set out the somewhat
    complicated situation on the continent. In this post I'll focus on HS
    only, BMH can come later.

    The German custodian of the breed is the Verein Hirschmann, founded in
    1894.
    It has at present some 700 members and breeds around 50 pups a year.
    Before breeding is allowed the hounds have to pass strict tests
    (Vorpruefung and
    Hauptpruefung) as well as a confirmation test. The Verein is a member
    of the German Kennel Club which in turn is a member of the FCyI, the
    Federation Cynologitique International), the Federation of Kennel
    Clubs with 86 country members. Numerous other countries, Austria,
    Hungary, France, Italy, the check republic as well as Denmark, Norway
    and Sweden to name a few have their own Societies. All abide by the
    FCyI rules and all of these will issue FCyI approved pedigrees.

    I must warn readers that there also exist a somewhat shadowy
    organisation confusingly also named FCI (the Federacion Canina
    International). Whilst not illegal its pedigrees are not recognised by
    any of the above mentioned Societies, it has no website that I can
    find but the FCyI website carries the following warning "the FCyI
    warns all its members and contract partners that it holds no official
    relations with the Federación Canina Internacional and its members and
    that it does not recognise this Federación." I leave

    readers to draw their own conclusions as to why this Society uses the
    same

    FCI initials. A number of South American Societies are members but as
    I said information is difficult to obtain.

    But the UK is not a member of the FCyI and also does not recognise the
    HS breed to make life complicated. It is therefore impossible to buy
    pups in the UK with an FCyI pedigree. The only thing people can do is
    to look carefully at the pedigrees of the parents to make sure they
    have a hound with proper papers.

    If people have doubt when buying a pup I will be quite willing to help
    if they can scan me the parent's pedigrees.

    There also exists a second category of HS, what I would call with
    doubtful

    papers either by a former East German Society or issued from Bulgaria
    or suchlike. For layman confusing. Send the papers to me.

    And thirdly HS without any papers. These are advertised in every issue
    of the German Shooting Times. Some are very good some less so but in
    buying them and category 2 hounds you run the not neglectable risk of
    epilepsy that is prevalent in the breed.

    Although talking money is somewhat distasteful when you intend to buy
    a lifelong companion I would say that a dog from the first category
    costs about £ 7-900 in Europe. I have no experience with category 2
    but obviously it should be less whilst category 3 is around £ 500.Travel
    costs on top.


    If readers have further interest in this fascinating breed I'll be at
    the Kelso Fair in March to answer any questions under the "Vlaamse
    Zweethonden

    Group" banner.

    Regards

    Rudi van Kets."

  2. #2
    Rudi is trying hard, someone honest and relyable!
    Nothing to discuss, just the basic facts, its up to everybody to decide what to do!
    Yes, go and meet him in Kelso!
    People's hobbies are more their measure's than are their jobs.

  3. #3
    Now,FCylI dogs are the better choice than FCaninaI dogs
    In fact the only choice.
    The VH will not accept FCaninaI dogs at all,I wonder why?
    They are protective of a breed they love.Quite rightly so.
    Not only that they do not sanction uncontrolled breeding.For any reason.
    Thus Bernhards post on another thread.
    All VH dogs are heavily worked,conform to breed standards and strictly health tested,whereas the others,well,not.
    All VH dogs are FCylI papered not Canina.
    As Rudi states why are the logos of both societies so alike with just the C word being different....
    Talk to Rudi,myself or Widu concerning these dogs,not Canina breeders.
    Who in fact have not the dogs welfare at heart but to my mind just see the £££ signs.
    Ask this as well,why are properly papered and tested dogs cheaper than their Canina bretheren.
    I had a conversation with a Canina breeder regarding their practices and they wanted the pups prices to remain very high.In fact they were very annoyed that the VH could produce pups cheaper and better than theirs.
    Better with respect to work,health and they look like HS also.
    This Canina breeder also said to me that VH dogs were inbred,I said not as inbred as Canina dogs.Of which I have proof....
    The ISHV stops the VH dogs from being inbred whereas the Canina "lot"have a much much smaller gene pool.
    ISHV dogs are the only dogs that have a guarantee of working ability,the only ones.
    Always FCylI papered dogs,always......that way you are not contributing to problems here in UK.
    Last edited by Wolverine; 19-02-2013 at 20:15.

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  4. #4
    Nice post Brian and many thanks to Rudi for being so kind as to explain things in such an easy to understand way along with being so kind as to take the time to investigate any pups pedigree for people so hopefully they will end up with a healthy well bred pup fit for purpose and hopefully without the chance of the possibly of large vets fees in the future for treatment of possible hereditary problems
    Kind regards
    Jimmy

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildboar1973 View Post
    Rudi is trying hard, someone honest and relyable!
    Nothing to discuss, just the basic facts, its up to everybody to decide what to do!
    Yes, go and meet him in Kelso!
    You better than most Michael know the problems....
    As you say the facts are there,decision is down to the buyers.

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  6. #6
    Best of luck to any one taking on the challenge of VH reg dog you will need the mind set of a bull to follow it through. But i am sure if done correct like WIDU,S BMH the rewards are worth the effort.

  7. #7
    FCaninaI breeders in Germany.
    google Deutsche Rasshunde Verband e.V. (DRV,for short)
    That will get you onto the Canina logo and HS breeders.
    Remember these dogs are not recognised anywhere.

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  8. #8
    so really then guys lets look at it this way

    "you can have a ferrari or a toyota MR2 with the body kit on"

    they both look the same to the layman as you go by, but you wont have the pedigree of the history, the fine tuning that has been done to better the breed or possibly the extra guts when the going gets tough. but they will both get you from A to B after a fashion haha

    so up to potential buyers really i guess and good luck what ever you spend your cash on
    jimmy

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy milnes View Post
    so really then guys lets look at it this way

    "you can have a ferrari or a toyota MR2 with the body kit on"

    they both look the same to the layman as you go by, but you wont have the pedigree of the history, the fine tuning that has been done to better the breed or possibly the extra guts when the going gets tough. but they will both get you from A to B after a fashion haha

    so up to potential buyers really i guess and good luck what ever you spend your cash on
    jimmy
    very unusual, but very accurate analogy Jimmy!
    Last edited by jamross65; 19-02-2013 at 23:42.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jamross65 View Post
    very unusual, bet very accurate analogy Jimmy!
    Pretty spot on....
    Apart from-
    DRV-lada
    FCylI-Toyota MR2
    ISHV-Ferrari
    Now where does the Ferrari cost less than the other 2,cos it does.

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