Camo versus plain green

Hales Smut

Well-Known Member
Does camo has an advantage over plain green for stalking ?
Both for the Hill and for Woodland . Top jackets like Swazi and Harkila ProHunter are plain green . Is there a reason ?
 
Hales Smut

Now that's an excellent question :)

Camouflage is a fascinating subject in its own right. It is designed to conceal or deceive, so we wear it to break up the regular outline of the human form and to blend in to the surrounding environment. However, most of the camouflage that we wear is really designed to conceal us from other humans, when in reality what we want is to wear something that will conceal us from deer!

It's worth trawling the Internet to look at some of the research into how deer 'see', as this suggests that they are more receptive to some parts of the visible spectrum than humans. Hence you can read a lot about how receptive deer are to ultra-violet (UV) light, with the consequent advice that you shouldn't wash any camo in regular washing powder as these contain agents that brighten your clothing, but also brighten your UV profile. There is also the suggestion that our camo should really be in shades of blue, since this is a part of the visual spectrum that deer show least awareness of.

Interesting as the research is, personally I am sceptical about a lot of this and how it relates to 'real-life' stalking. To my mind the most important thing is to avoid uneccessary movement, as this tends to spook deer far more than what you are wearing. For this reason I have also taken to wearing camo gloves and a face-mask, as these are light-coloured 'flags' that will attract a deer's attention even if you are otherwise clad in drab clothing.

So far as the clothing itself, I tend to wear camo whether I'm stalking down South or in Scotland. What's interesting is that some camo's that work well down South stand out like a sore thumb when on the Hill, so you need to be careful (or buy a lot of different camo patterns :D ). One of the best I've found for where I stalk in Scotland is the Swiss Alpine camo - up close it is looks like it would be useless but in fact the very blotchy beige, red and white works very well at a distance. DPM, by contrast, can look almost black when it's wet (note wet, not dry), and consequently sticks right out when on the Hill.

Just like woodland, Scottish terrain can vary widely. Remember that many of the estate tweeds were designed with concealment on the hill specifically in mind, so vary according to the local environment. Generations of stalkers elsewhere have dressed in Loden, and they still seem to be pretty successful ;) Somewhere upstairs I've got a loden cape - I just don't have the guts to wear it when my stalking mates are around :D

Sorry, lots of words above but not much advice! I'd suggest you find the clothing that's most comfortable for you and go with that. Plain green or camo, the last thing you want is clothing that doesn't fit, isn't waterproof or falls apart after one outing. Plain green is often more versatile if you intend also wearing it for game shooting, dog walking or 'social' occasions, whereas turning up for a driven shoot wearing camo can raise a few eyebrows :rolleyes:

willie_gunn
 
I always wear camo clothing, a camo hood, gloves and usually my rifle has some camo on it. I couldn't say for certain if it is any better than plain green but I work on the principle if you're going to spend 16 hours on a trip up to Scotland (4stalks x 4hrs) then I want it to be as fruitful as I can!
Most of the professional stalkers I shoot with wear plain green and no camo hood but most have gloves. They seem to get the deer alright and they tell me its movement that is far more important than colour.

I think if I get 1 or 2 more deer with camo over the year it is worth wearing although when you pop into a shop, pub or petrol station after stalking you do feel a bit conspicuous (I take my hood off first!)
 
camo

Gentlemen I find the discussion very interesting and for my part utilise both camo and plain green............the following may be of interest to you all and comes from the life of John Buchan ( Lord Tweedsmuir ) in his book................Memory Hold the Door .
He writes of stalking with great understanding and of camo writes..........
' Camouflage,too, is important. I have always believed in breaking up my costume,for, whatever the forest, its colour will not be uniform, and I would wear, say, a checked jacket, grey flannel knickerbockers and grey-blue stockings. The ground often consists of a ribbon of turf bounded by heather and shingle, and by crawling along the border-line between the green and the rough, keeping half the body in each, if the wind is right it is possible to get within shot, though you are in full view of the deer. '

He writes of the old type of gillie saying to him.....'Gang quiet sir '
' gang as if ye was something growing '

Sense in all of it. To all of you have a good seasom. MBP
 
I think movement is the key, and the shining of the torches, that we call hands and face, at a deer is probably the biggest give away of all. To me breaking up your outline is the most important, and if it were as simple as slipping on a DPM jacket wouldn't it be good.

If you are in a wood, merely sitting against a tree or bush and wearing a single colour such as green or grey, with your hands and face concealed, can and will do an excellent job. However if you are out on the hill from a distance will the same tactics work? who knows for sure, some say yes and others say no. One argument is that it you are clad in a single colour then, depending on the light, you could look just like a black blob and any movement would easily be seen, so camo is the required dress.

Personally I have always been fond of army surplus, for dry weather, and deerhunter has always seen me OK in the wet. I have a Jahti Jakt suit to satisfy my dark green urge, and am therefore like a milking stool with a leg in three different camps.

Does it make a difference to me? I don't think so I am just as useless no matter what I wear :eek:

John
 
Camo is always down to your environment and how you blend into the background. The clothes you were don't have to be expensive so long as the tone balences to your surroundings. Any drab colour will do and in my experience especially if your environment changes cross your ground.

I do most of my stalking in a drab fleece and once you spot the deer it's up to my ability whether I can get to it or not and not my camo gear. Some people simply stomp about and don't have what it takes to stalk. The best camo in the world doesn't help you be silent and avoid being winded.

I've had plenty of deer look right at me and not see me at 100 yds or less because i didn't move but I've spooked plenty by little noises like zips of rifle clicks or in forestry where wind swirles round and they wind you. The nose and ears in really what you need to avoid being detected by.
 
It was put to me, " cammo gear is marketed for shooters, stillness is the key to shooting", stalk slowly then slower still.
Having said that love my Deerhunter and have never been so warm and comfortable, which is probably an aid to keeping still. (have still to shoot a deer but was within 30 yards of doe's last week so somethings going right.)
Tom
 
Hales Smut said:
Does camo has an advantage over plain green for stalking ?
It's a good question and let's face it only the deer know the answer, and they're not telling.
This week at work I called the lad (a university student) who was working with me to come and look at the deer in the field next to the site where we were working. Needless to say, by the time he got to the field gate the deer had gone from view. I said I'd try to call the deer across to our side of the field so he could have a look. I picked a suitable blade of grass and made a reasonable attempt at a fiep call. The lad, who I think suspected I was a bit weird( calling deer- oh yeh!!) had by this time climbed on top of the field gate, wearing a high-vis orange jacket, for a better view if the imaginary deer came across the field. I was a few yards inside the field, also wearing high-vis kit, in full view of a rapidly approaching roe doe. I told the lad to keep perfectly still. The doe stopped about 150 yds away, head just showing on the brow of the field, looking suspicious and testing the air with tongue and nose. I still had both hands and grass to my mouth, so I called a couple more times. The doe came at full gallop in our direction with a pretty decent buck in attendance, got to within 25 yds of us and stopped, looking and scenting again. After a few seconds I scared the pair of them away with a shout and clap of the hands. The lad was well impressed, you don't see too much of that on the campus at Uni!!
The point of this little story is "Do we need Camo or Plain Orange"?
As said by others, movement is so often the give-away, but I shan't be going out in Orange this evening, I'll stick to my Real-Tree :) :)
Cheers, Pete.
 
Going back to my service days ( A long time a go ). The rule of thumb was:-
S - Shine
S - Shadow
S - Silhouette
S - Shape
Most important
M - Movement
If you can get rid of these you will not be seen.
As stated above by others I think a lot of patterns are to catch our eyes.
You still cannot beat practice. The more you stalk hopefully the wiser you become.
Paul
 
I personally still wear tweeds when out stalking or shooting. They are heavy when they get wet but they are warm and hard wearing plus they worked as camo for the old stalkers and they look smarter than looking like a bush. I do own other shooting gear that is modern and more waterproof but they are green.

Im a great believer that if it works for you then dont change it...
 
There's alot of nonesence written about camo 0 especially by the marketing folks punting realtree/ digi-flage/ etc.

You learn in the army that you don't necessarily have to be wearing DPM or the most accurate digitally enhanced nonesence.
S - Shine
S - Shadow
S - Silhouette
S - Shape
M - Movement is spot on.

When stalking in New Zealand i've used a blaze cammo jacket which is bright orange in colour with patches of black and grey across it. Bloody bright it is too - you look like a traffic sign but the point is that there are huge swaiths of public land which is accessible to stalk but can be extremely dense. You want other hunters to see you if you should blunder into their sights. The deer see in monotone anyway so it makes no difference to them at all.
I wouldn't use it here because it would likely attract to much attention resulting in confrontations with anti, etc.

i myself still have half a skip full of DPM gear that i 'aquired' whilst serving which i use and give away. For jackets i use a German desert parka in the summer because it's very light and airy (i swapped a SA80 baynet for it) and a green woolen Swandri jacket in the winter because of it's hard wearing and warmth. i recently bought another from Bushwear as they were doing a deal.
 
cammo?

I totally agree that it is lack of movement which is key to staying unseen. However why not take a lesson from centuries of evolution in nature. The dull drab mousy grey/brown of deer in their winter coat makes them very difficult to spot. How many deer would we see without first noticing the light rump patch especially of Roe? Predators that rely on a complete blending with background also keep rigidly still and let the prey come to them. Hunting animals have other tactics but have you noticed this? Prey species often are quite red in the summer as are a lot of predators-weasals, foxes, stoats. Against the bright greens of summer growth to us they stick out. I have always therefore thought that the prey species must be red/green colour blind. Maybe not helpful here but interesting none the same. My Grandfather always said that red coloured Deerhounds were popular because the deer didnt notice them so much when sitting still. This led to a higher usage of this colour of hound and as it was difficult to breed them(a recessive)they faded out. You never see a deerhound other than steel grey now. David
 
Movement is the key,deer wont generally see you if you are not moving however one has to get to where wants and I do believe in maximising my chances by wearing camo or at least face mask and mitts to stop reflected glare. Getting in close to Sambar is tough enough and i get my pics with the aid of camo,it is a great help.

Lamellar in Australia make tough camo gear that I imagine would be well suited to your styles of hunting and weather patterns.
Here is an example of the effectiveness of a cammed sitter whilst waiting for one to come through.

cammed1.png


IMG_4299.jpg
 
My most effective cammo in either summer of winter (not snow) is realtree wetlands, although supersceded by Max-4, all I can say is it seems to work well for me. I will admit to not being a fan of cammo gear, I am always amazed at how quickly a deer can disappear or appear and all they have is counter-shading.

As long as my hands and face are covered too, I am quite happy to only wear dull brown/green gear.

ft
 
I prefer just plain green Harkila goretex lined stalking trousers, wellies or stalking boots (preferred), some fleece layering (or similar), and a Browning/Harkila jacket on top. Mix that with my old trustee shooting/fishing Stetson hat and some fingerless wool gloves from Barbour:D

Don't like face masks or face nets to be honest, seem to impair my vision and remove the joy of stalking completely, rather risk losing a deer from facial exposure now and again, although it's very rare if you are careful. This year I have been experimenting with green scrim, and if worn as a scarf, it can quickly be pulled over the nose to cover 85% of your face if you are observing a deer - seems to work great, and will keep experimenting with that option in '11. Once in the highlands this year, I took the scrim scarf off, put it over my head/shoulders and rifle (only leaving the barrell sticking out), and managed to have a group of hinds walk within 30 yards of me. Only one curious little calf decided to come have a look (oddly the hinds noticed nothing), and literally came up and sniffed me..........then hauled ass!!!!!!!! so I think it may be my new solution for avoiding a facemask/net, and just having something easy to pull either over my face or take off and cover my head/rifle (depending on situation). we'll see....

If you have read the thread on snowsuits. the one in the link to ebay, I got in the post tuesday, tried it yesterday, and basically walked/crawled into within 75yds of a feeding doe with follower. Sat there looking at them in the scope for minutes, they looked up, but because of the snowsuit, they had no clue I was there, sitting completely exposed on a hillside right next to them, with no other cover. This suit is a bit see-through, so goes a little white/grey with shadows (which is PERFECT), and has a draw-string hood which can be zipped in to almost total face coverage. Before you ask, no, I did not shoot,,,my dog which I had decided to treat to a winter stalk, laying beside me, decided the action was too much to take, and started wimpering with anxiety:rolleyes: 'that' got the deers attention,,,,and off we go:lol: nevermind, it was a great few hours out, and lesson learned..only bring the dog when you are not too concerned about taking a deer, or at least, don't let it sit right next to you waiting to see the shot (I guess for this lab, it was just too exciting).
 
Agree with the posts on the bright hands flagging up to the deer.
A wide brimmed hat works well to create shade tall round o stop the face being noticed, beats a baseball style hands down.
Martin
 
I agree with all of you. Neutral colours and stillness. If you are walking up near deer and a head swings up - never make a dive to the ground or try to dart into cover. Just stand still and HOPE that you were not caught in mid-stride !

One of our old stalkers had a light-blue ex-airforce jerkin. It disappeared into the hill at three hundred yards. Washed-out heavy German army shirts just melted into the background. I wear leaf cammo because it's what I have, and sometimes on darker days my old forest cammo.

Best use of shadow, scent and movement, contrast between skyline and the line of ground just immediately underneath. Like a young wild predator - learn to use the terrain and how to move or you will go hungry.
 
I have used cheep cheerful hardwearing ex-army dpm & even snow pattern,for deacdes, with fleese hoody under or fleesed trousers under when sub zero temps. As most animals see black & white like an old tv, Works for me , but experience is an added bonus, you cannot buy.
S - Shine
S - Shadow
S - Silhouette
S - Shape
M - Movement is spot on.

:D
 
Back
Top