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Thread: muzzle awareness

  1. #1

    muzzle awareness

    I like to watch the various shooting channels that are now on line,it passes a few mins and sometime can be interesting,but my worry is "muzzle awareness"
    it seems all these pro stalkers (I use that term loosley) alway load there rifles on camera with the muzzle pointing up into the sky.Now forgive me for questioning such an act but when i did my level 1 DMQ safety test back in 2001 we were expected to load the rifle with the muzzle pointing at the ground or you would have failed.
    Has the safety test changed or is it now accepted to point and load a rifle with the muzzle pointing to the sky ??

  2. #2
    In every discipline I've always believed when loading / unloading any firearm that the muzzle is pointing in a safe direction. Soft ground, down range, loading / unloading bay, ballistic bag etc. never the sky.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by see it shoot it View Post
    I like to watch the various shooting channels that are now on line,it passes a few mins and sometime can be interesting,but my worry is "muzzle awareness"
    it seems all these pro stalkers (I use that term loosley) alway load there rifles on camera with the muzzle pointing up into the sky.Now forgive me for questioning such an act but when i did my level 1 DMQ safety test back in 2001 we were expected to load the rifle with the muzzle pointing at the ground or you would have failed.
    Has the safety test changed or is it now accepted to point and load a rifle with the muzzle pointing to the sky ??

    The time when you are most likely to have an accidental discharge is when changing state of a rifle, ie when loading, unloading, removing the safety or setting a trigger. Thus have the rifle pointing at a safe place when changing state. You only need to get a grass seed or similar lodged in the trigger mechanism so that the sear doesn't engage properly and the rifle goes off when the bolt is closed, or you take it off safe. I once had an AD when I pushed the trigger forward to set it. The rifle fired and the bullet went safely into the ground. Took it to the gunsmith - there was grass seed lodged in the trigger mechanism that was stopping it engaging properly. Not a nice experience, but if you always work on the basis that this will happen at some point then you will be safe.

    The trouble with a rifle is that pointed in the air the bullet will come down a couple of miles away and with lethal force. Personally I do not like carrying a rifle loaded, slung over the shoulder and muzzle up. You have no control over where it is pointing. Most of the time I carry the rifle empty if its a bolt action, and load up when getting ready to shoot. With the combination gun, I carry it broken like a broken like a shotgun.

  4. #4
    I can see your point but loading when getting ready to shoot would get me very few deer in my neck of the woods ,one little metallic click and the deer I stalk would be long gone as for on the hill well that maybe a different matter .i carry my loaded rifle muzzle up on my shoulder and load away from persons / guide muzzle up too .i did know of a stalker who nearly blew his foot off whilst loading his rifle .....it was a blazer lol .
    we all have our little ways you the stalker must decide on what action you take to ensure safe practice .
    kind regards
    norma

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by norma 308 View Post
    I can see your point but loading when getting ready to shoot would get me very few deer in my neck of the woods ,one little metallic click and the deer I stalk would be long gone as for on the hill well that maybe a different matter .i carry my loaded rifle muzzle up on my shoulder and load away from persons / guide muzzle up too .i did know of a stalker who nearly blew his foot off whilst loading his rifle .....it was a blazer lol .
    we all have our little ways you the stalker must decide on what action you take to ensure safe practice .
    kind regards
    norma
    i suspect a lot of us do this, but I think the issue was with during the actual process of loading rather than once loaded, safety on etc, I always point in a safe (ground wards) direction when loading or unloading, but carry the rifle muzzle up once its loaded and 'safe'.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Heym SR20 View Post
    The trouble with a rifle is that pointed in the air the bullet will come down a couple of miles away and with lethal force.

    Doesnt happen,
    Terminal velocity of bullet mass falling is not enough to kill

    there is even a "Mythbusters" episode devoted to it, to disprove the theory of carnival deaths due to discharging firearms into the air


    The problem arises when the AD occurs with the barrel at a sub 60-75deg angle from horizontal and the bullet is no longer only being acted on by gravity and is still carrying some of it's own starting velocity.
    as the 3000yd shot video shows its still doing 900fps out at 3000


    that said I am not sure I would find loading with the rifle pointing up an obvious choice, its just easier to see into the chamber and mag well with it pointing down!

  7. #7
    Hi Bewsher,

    IIRC (been a while since I saw the episode) I believe mythbusters only disproved the theory that a bullet fired exactly vertically will not have enough energy on the way down - the 'ER' doctor they went to see proved fairly conclusively that a bullet fired at an angle will kill quite some distance away. They also seemed to find it reasonably tricky to make sure the firearm was discharged vertically, which to me would suggest that when loading the rifle is unlikely to be exactly vertical.

    On a slightly different note, I was very surprised at the altitude the bullet would reach before coming back down.

    Was a good episode though.

  8. #8
    for me it depends on ground stalked i always pointed my rifle down but stalking in scotland alot most of the ground is granit or other stone just under the surface so it will only come back so i dont think thats safe so straight up for me ,atb wayne

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bewsher500 View Post
    Doesnt happen,
    Terminal velocity of bullet mass falling is not enough to kill

    there is even a "Mythbusters" episode devoted to it, to disprove the theory of carnival deaths due to discharging firearms into the air


    The problem arises when the AD occurs with the barrel at a sub 60-75deg angle from horizontal and the bullet is no longer only being acted on by gravity and is still carrying some of it's own starting velocity.
    as the 3000yd shot video shows its still doing 900fps out at 3000


    that said I am not sure I would find loading with the rifle pointing up an obvious choice, its just easier to see into the chamber and mag well with it pointing down!
    Rachel Yoder shot by gun 1.5 miles away: Amish girl, 15, killed in freak accident | Mail Online

    This would suggest that it can happen and this was a muzzle loader.

    Cheers

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 270Buck View Post
    Rachel Yoder shot by gun 1.5 miles away: Amish girl, 15, killed in freak accident | Mail Online

    This would suggest that it can happen and this was a muzzle loader.

    Cheers
    not with terminal velocity it doesn't
    but as I said, angled shots are killing with the residual force they left the muzzle with, not gravity

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