Does in March

Does in March


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Frog

Well-Known Member
I am aware that this subject has been discussed in the past but thought a poll might be useful. I have been told, by a reliable and informed source, that consideration is being given to reverting to the doe season closing at the end of February. We tend to stop shooting does at the end of February and if necessary balance our cull with prickets and followers in March. That's just our preferred approach. Apologies but I have submitted the poll seperately.


Richard
Deer Diary
 
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Richard i cant see the season going back to the end of february with a 50% increase in deer being culled ,called for.

Havent seen you for a while i will give you bell when i get chance and have a catch up.
cheers jon
 
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I think it depends on your cull plan the area were i am has many differing objectives regards deer .I have ground were the deer have been managed year after year and are in fine fekel. These areas the cull has been done normally by the end of January. We also have areas were the deer need culled to protect growing trees and crop,s we will not stop on these places and will actually increase our efforts as the kick out starts. Mainly roe were i am.
 
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Why? There are no deer welfare issues regarding young animals. If anything, it could even be extended until the end of April!
It is viewed as 'best practice' to shoot heavily pregnant Muntjac Does, so why should it be different for other species?
If your cull plan requires animals to be culled and there are no deer welfare issues, then what is the problem?
If you don't like it, you don't have to do it, but there are some folks out there that will need the extra time.
Many estates with commercial game shoots will not let deer management even begin until after the game bird season has finished.
I've not heard any rumours about changing it and recent news reports would certainly not indicate support for reversion to previous seasons.
MS
 
If you don't like it, you don't have to do it

well there`s the answer, I personally find it distasteful......
but...... it depends on your objectives in your management plan
culling a doe with twins makes a serious impact on deer numbers for that year.
If thats whats needed you have to do it.
BUt if you dont need to,perhaps your deer population is marginal, its nice to leave them
Certainly pheasant shooting makes doe culling difficult until February.
 
I really can't see why they would want to change it back. With the amount of press deer have had over the last 6 months i find this very strange.
On what grounds does you reliable and informed source say this is?

In a ideal world i think most of us would have our doe cull completed by the end of february but the extra month allows us to keep to our cull numbers if we have not completed them.
 
If you don't like it, you don't have to do it

well there`s the answer, I personally find it distasteful......
but...... it depends on your objectives in your management plan
culling a doe with twins makes a serious impact on deer numbers for that year.
If thats whats needed you have to do it.
BUt if you dont need to,perhaps your deer population is marginal, its nice to leave them
Certainly pheasant shooting makes doe culling difficult until February.

How do you tell if the doe that you are about to shoot has twins or not?

What difference does it make if you shoot that doe on Nov' 1 or March 31 (or in April for that matter (if it was legal to do so))?

Personally, I would rather shoot a doe in March when she has had a chance to guide and feed fawns or kids through thier first winter than in November when they are still very naive and, to a certain extent, dependant.

The issue of gameshooting effecting deer culling is a separate problem altogether and one for landowners to decide where their priorities lay.

I have asked lots of people and no-one has ever given me a satisfactory answer as to why a Stalker walking quietly through the woods in daylight, having one or two shots with a moderated rifle causes massive disturdance to game but several 'keepers out on quad bikes three or four nights a week shooting rats and rabbits with ten shot Benellies is no problem?
 
"What difference does it make if you shoot that doe on Nov' 1 or March 31 (or in April for that matter (if it was legal to do so))?"

I have to agree JC275 it makes little difference, the doe will be pregnant already in August.
The foetus will not really develop til January.
Its just a personal issue, I just dont like gralloching perfectly formed twins
that could be live born in a few weeks time.
If its necessary thats ok, if its not, its a waste.
 
Don't shoot the messenger! It is perfectly understandable that there will be different demands, pressures and views. Our position is simply that we don't need to cull mature does in March and we prefer not to, if we had to, we would! But then our system is polling the least favoured!

Although it is a bit of a straw poll and completely unscientific I will feed the result back.

Thanks for your interest and lively debate.

Richard
Deer Diary
 
All being equal I would rather shoot any does and followers that need culling end October and into November. They are still in reasonable condition and gets numbers own before the bad weather, leaving plenty of food for those that remain so hopefully they should get through the winter in reasonable shape.

The good thing about shooting Does in March is any followers should be of a size and through the worst of the winter and be able look after themselves, so little or no welfare issues. If there has been a first spring flush of growth of new grass etc, yeld does may have put on a bit o condition so a better carcass. But yes gralloching a heavily pregnant animal is not that pleasant.
 
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"What difference does it make if you shoot that doe on Nov' 1 or March 31 (or in April for that matter (if it was legal to do so))?"

I have to agree JC275 it makes little difference, the doe will be pregnant already in August.
The foetus will not really develop til January.
Its just a personal issue, I just dont like gralloching perfectly formed twins
that could be live born in a few weeks time.
If its necessary thats ok, if its not, its a waste.

Agreed . . . I don't like it, and unless these is issues with severe damage being caused to replant ect . . . then I leave well alone.
 
I would like to say that everyone has made a good point. I shoot does right up to the end of march because I am shooting to protect crops, but if was not I can see the point as it is sometimes not the nicest gralloch. but as with most things in shooting it is personal choice and as long as their is no welfare issue i think it should continue to be so.

Andy7mm
 
I like to still think of my self as a sporting type of person and while i do not hesitate to protect a crop or remove deer that are causing a problem. In the main i would not shoot a big doe through march. I find them very easy to kill as they are now at a real low condition they have normally deer still at foot following and eating everything they want to eat and to large unborn kids in side draining there resources. So for me its time to give them a wee rest and got things ready for the start of buck season. ;)
 
I personally only shoot doe followers in March - I'd rather leave the follower bucks until they are kicked out and provide more yearling 'buck' sport in May/June when they've shed their velvet, and before the rut starts with sport on the older bucks. Then again, I'm not working to a strict cull plan or quota.

that said, if I see a dependent buck that's in poor condition, I'd cull that over the doe follower (if any), and the same with an older doe that is in really bad shape, I'd rather deal with gralloching a pregnant doe than have her die of age or illness and then leave a young orphaned kid to also die.
 
I find more pros, for taking followers, than not. I, for one, will work harder to meet the culling by the end of Feb, rather than have to see a fully grown kid, still in the womb, that will be born in a few weeks. Take the follower and leave what little there is for the expectant mother. The meat of a yearling is much better than that of an expectant doe.
 
I hav the pleasure of shooting muntjac so no uuurrrggghh issues shooting does/hinds in March
if you hav a cull to meet and not been able to reach it then March is a good month in my experience
but then any month is a good month if you leave yearlings or barren does for such occasions providing you can catch back up with them
 
If you have to...do, if you dont have to...dont.
Personally I find it distasteful grollaching a heavily pregnant doe (not that I've seen many heavily pregnant bucks!) but can see there are circumstances when it has to be done to reach cull figures.
Munties are interesting and food for thought but I must say I consider munties similar to rabbits, they have such a high fecundity shooting pregnant does will do little to stop population increase.
 
After waiting till the end of the game shooting to enable you to get in about the Does, and the farmer asking how many you have shot yet, and when will you get the numbers he wants shot, in the bag, you shoot till the end of March, simple.

On other ground with no pressure, you make you`re own mind up. If you fancy leaving it , then leave it. The Season ends in March for a reason.
 
In an ideal world it would be nice to complete the cull in November but we don't all have that luxury some of us due to game shooting interests can not begin our cull until the end of the game season, for me thats shooting right through to the end of March.


Yes some find shooting heavily pregnant does distasteful but bare in mind that regardless of when you shoot a doe in season she will be pregnant.

Other than personally finding it distasteful there are no welfare issues with shooting does in March


Baring in mind that the largest part of your cull should comprise of young animals, March is not a bad time to take out the youngsters in your cull plan.
 
In an ideal world it would be nice to complete the cull in November but we don't all have that luxury some of us due to game shooting interests can not begin our cull until the end of the game season, for me thats shooting right through to the end of March.


Yes some find shooting heavily pregnant does distasteful but bare in mind that regardless of when you shoot a doe in season she will be pregnant.

Other than personally finding it distasteful there are no welfare issues with shooting does in March


Baring in mind that the largest part of your cull should comprise of young animals, March is not a bad time to take out the youngsters in your cull plan.

If anything, there is a greater welfare issue with shooting Does in November! Although it is legal, many deer will still be drawing milk from their mothers. Even though they may be deemed as 'independent', they rely heavily on their mothers to develop their life skills during the first 6 months of their lives and even after. A young deer which is orphaned in early November will often not develop very well or even perish. I don't like to shoot anything other than obvious young does that are without kids until after Christmas for fear of orphaning kids before they have fully developed. I believe this would be far more of a welfare issue than having to gralloch a doe with well developed foetus. Some might find it upsetting to see unborn deer, but you should maybe consider placing deer welfare above your own feelings? Shooting too early in the season is far worse than shooting to late!
MS
 
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