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Thread: Lag

  1. #1


    Wot are they all about??

    Lead Ammunition Group

    Is this the way forward
    thoughts ??

  2. #2
    The LAG was set up as we can see from the web site in response to lobbying by the RSPB / WWT.

    At the moment the LAG are still researching the evidence to determine what the risks from lead ammunition really are, and the research has taken longer than anticipated.

    The group exists to inform ministers , again correspondence on this is on the site.

    However the key issue and what evoked this in the first place was the lack of compliance, in some areas of shooting, with the law on the use of lead ammunition.

    Regardless of the work of the LAG the really important point is that shooters must comply with the law, failure to comply will simply weaken our case for the continued use of lead ammunition, no amount of lobbying can overturn a politicians view if shooters are seen to be ignoring the law.


  3. #3
    Maybe we need a Pro L.A.G. to chivvy round the MP's in the porch?
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  4. #4
    I don’t think MP’s need a chivvy up, the relevant ministers will get the reports from LAG and then brief MP’s et al

  5. #5
    my god just had a flick read there are risk assessments on the risk assessment then more etc. a fact i would be intrested in is who -how and when has if any one died of eating lead shot/ bullet frags ! and if none why can't an adult decide what he/thay can eat !! if anyone has died as a proven direct result from this when is the report coming out ? prob after the risk assessment for photocopying has been done, and why is the same thing not being done on the FMJ for use in combat ! fact is injury is better in war as it takes more men off the play ground a numbers game ! my point is are our lads and lassys worth less than game birds and deer? why do the ammo makers like the lead core fmj's /sp cos its CHEAPE AND AFFECTIVE and gets the job done
    Last edited by paul o'; 01-04-2013 at 12:50.

  6. #6
    Paul, ammunition makers produce and sell FMJ to the armed forces because under intrrnational law, it is illegal to use expanding ammo on humans, although, financially, cheap may also be a factor!

  7. #7

    are there any proposed dates when evidence will be presented
    i assume it is all lead ie shot and rifle bullets.

    Last edited by gr1ffer; 01-04-2013 at 14:23.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by teabag_46 View Post
    Paul, ammunition makers produce and sell FMJ to the armed forces because under intrrnational law, it is illegal to use expanding ammo on humans, although, financially, cheap may also be a factor!

    yup as you say the 1899 Hague Convention that prohibits combat units from using of bullets that “expand or flatten easily” inside the human body
    but Tier-1, special-mission units are authorized to use jacketed hollow-point bullets instead of standard ball. How do they do it? They classify themselves as counterterrorism forces, a legal distinction that allows them to use the same hollow-point ammo used by all law enforcement agencies.

    Some will argue that hollow points are designed to prevent over-penetrations that endanger innocent bystanders. That may be true, but any ballistic expert will tell you that they also create a larger wound cavity than standard ball.
    The military has some recent success in getting past this stringent legal standard by fielding two enhanced-performance 5.56mm rounds.
    Special Operations Command’s new MK318 round is designed to penetrate battlefield barriers such as windshields, car doors and walls without losing any of its terminal performance inside the enemy.
    The open-tip match design makes it highly accurate but also tends to flatten and expand when it penetrates up to 18 inches of flesh. But you won’t find that little tidbit in any document Pentagon lawyers approved.
    times are changeing boss
    in S.A police thay used 9mil black talon
    usa 45acp 9mil hollow point ??

  9. #9
    Paul, you are obviously a switched on cookie, and know your stuff, at the (unintended) risk of getting into an argument, and not really wanting to get off the original topic; you are mostly correct, although the Hague Convention covers INTERNATIONAL warfare, and bans rounds which are designed to expand or flatten easily ON IMPACT.

    Had my first post been more accurate, we wouldn't have had to correct each other like this

  10. #10
    Dear All,

    The LAG are not looking at military ammunition, interesting and informative though the points above are, regardless of what the LAG concludes and regardless of the decisions made by MP’s on sporting ammunition, military / defence/ anti terrorist ammunition will not be part of that process.

    I do not know when the final reports will be delivered; there is a further meeting in May when I trust we will know more, but as I say, compliance is a , no ,probably THE major factor that will have an impact on the continued use of lead ammunition.


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