View Poll Results: Competence Lev

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  • One successful stalk

    16 14.29%
  • Two successful stalks

    12 10.71%
  • Three successful stalks

    69 61.61%
  • No need for a competence assessment

    15 13.39%
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Thread: Best way to test Competence

  1. #1

    Best way to test Competence

    I have been stalking many years and i never had to demonstrate compitence to any one.Times have changed and we now need to show we are fit for pourpose to shoot on public lands. DSC 2 Seems to me to be more and more sought after is it really nessasary to do three successful stalks to pass an award. Or are we being to hard on new stalkers your opinions please.
    Last edited by 6pointer; 03-04-2013 at 12:34.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6pointer View Post
    I have been stalking many years and i never had to demonstrate compitence to any one.Times have changed and we now need to show we are fit for pourpose to shoot on public lands. DSC 2 Seems to me to be more and more sought after is it really nessasary to do three successful stalks to pass an award. Or are we being to hard on new stalkers your opinions please.
    I've always wondered about this too... why three?

    I passed my exams at school on one test each. Same for all my further education. In fact, in my day, a re-sit was a bad thing and would go against you even if you scraped through on one. There was only one pass of my driving test and luckily I only had to sit that test once... even so, it would only have been the ONE that I passed that counted ..... for the rest of my life.

    So, when it comes to stalking, what is all this... do it three times... thing about... and what is the idea that once you do have your DSC2 you'll still need to have someone vouch for you after it's five years old?

    I think we know the answer... and competence isn't it.
    Last edited by Tamus; 03-04-2013 at 12:51.

  3. #3
    Having endured nine witnessed stalks to get three culls myself I think it is imperative that it should stay as it is. It would be just my luck for it to change to less now.

    All joking aside I think it is fair that it takes three witnessed stalks to complete your level2 but perhaps a minimum of one cull and one witnessed gralloch would be enough to make it more accessible to people.

  4. #4
    competance of what?

    shooting?
    stalking quietly within a sensible range of target species?
    target choice?
    gralloch and carcase preparation?

    plenty of people with a lot more stalks than you ask under their belt who won't perform one or other of the above perfectly on the day

  5. #5
    like everything else its all about getting more of your hard earned.moa.
    stotty

  6. #6
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    I guess first things first; DSC2 isn't designed as a Pass/Fail type exam, rather an ability for "candidates to demonstrate their knowledge and competence in legally, safely and humanely culling deer and dealing with carcasses hygienically". So comparing it to exams at school is not really apples to apples.

    If that's the aim of the qualification then it's hard to see how you could demonstrate either of these on the basis of just one successful stalk. Personally I feel three provides the right balance between meeting the objectives of the DSC2 and not being too onerous, costly or time consuming.....and no prizes for the first to come back and argue the "costly" statement

    Does it make you a stalking ninja - no.

    Does it make you better than someone with a lifetime of experience - not necessarily.

    Does it mean you've demonstrated knowledge and competence - yes.

    Does it mean that you can rest on your laurels - no.

    Now given that the DSC2 is out there and established (4,004 completed as of today) why go and invent some new measure?

    willie_gunn
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  7. #7
    I did my level 2 on three diferent species with three diferent people...

    I really enjoyed it and despite proving competent learnt loads more in their company and not just specific things related to the deer species taken with them..

    Three seems good and works well, if it were free some some people would still find something to moan about..

    Terry
    Blessed be the sheeple for they shall inherit bugger all...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie_gunn View Post
    I guess first things first; DSC2 isn't designed as a Pass/Fail type exam, rather an ability for "candidates to demonstrate their knowledge and competence in legally, safely and humanely culling deer and dealing with carcasses hygienically". So comparing it to exams at school is not really apples to apples.

    If that's the aim of the qualification then it's hard to see how you could demonstrate either of these on the basis of just one successful stalk. Personally I feel three provides the right balance between meeting the objectives of the DSC2 and not being too onerous, costly or time consuming.....and no prizes for the first to come back and argue the "costly" statement

    Does it make you a stalking ninja - no.

    Does it make you better than someone with a lifetime of experience - not necessarily.

    Does it mean you've demonstrated knowledge and competence - yes.

    Does it mean that you can rest on your laurels - no.

    Now given that the DSC2 is out there and established (4,004 completed as of today) why go and invent some new measure?

    willie_gunn
    It's a qualification. You either pass the test and have the qualification... or you don't. How is that different to school?... or not... "apples to apples"?

    More to the point... try telling the forestry commision that it's not a qualification, once you fail to get it...

  9. #9
    Remember, this is not a 'one-off' exam! It is based on the NVQ system of assessing vocational achievement. The awarding body will require 'sufficient' evidence to support an award. That is currently 3 stalks with an AW.
    Remember, it was originally only one with an AW and 2 others could be done by a Credible Witness'. This did not work and was almost the finish of the award.
    There are 27 Performance Criteria to fulfill, most of which are required to be supported by questioning.
    Different stalks and animals culled will create different permutations and thus allow different questions to be asked. If I witness all 3 stalks with someone, I will not ask the same question twice!
    It's all about quantity of valid, reliable evidence.
    MS

    PS. If there was no need for the award, it would not exist!!!!!!
    Last edited by Monkey Spanker; 03-04-2013 at 13:40.

  10. #10
    There is an option missed from the top and that is 'none of the above'

    DSC2 is so hit and miss that it is expensive, prohibitive and time consuming. It actually turns the clock back 40 year on stalking... it used to be an elitist pastime, reserved for those with land, deep pockets or vast amounts of spare time (either due to retirement or having minions to run one's business affairs) or all three... then, it became a pastime, albeit not necessarily a cheap pastime, that was opened up to 'normal folk' too.

    Because it was more accessible it became more popular and as it became more popular it became more lucrative and money making opportunities began to appear. Now though, with the current drive towards everyone having DSC2, it is once again becoming accessible only to those with land, deep pockets or vast amounts of spare time... or all three!

    Now.. I am all for proving competence, I work in an industry where one has to continually prove competence with regular testing and examination along with 'continuing professional development.' The competence of those running round the PUBLIC countryside in open areas with a high powered rifle is very much something that should be tested... blimey, even the Police and Armed Forces can't do that so don't play down just how much responsibility we carry!

    DSC1 is great, a bit like passing a driving test, it gives a basic grounding and equips the stalker with enough knowledge to go out and *begin* his journey but DSC 2 is far too onerous, not in what it sets out to prove but how it does it, in particular the fact that most of the time one is just damned lucky to get a deer, an AW and a shot off in the same place at the same time! Take my situation, 4 hour drive to my forestry permission, cost of AW plus his fuel to get there too, 1 in 4 chance of seeing a cull beast and then a further 1 in 4 chance of being able to safely shoot said deer.... the odds are firmly stacked against the candidate, and not due to lack of ability, due to the huge flaws in the whole DSC2 process!

    My idea would make it far more straightforward and a true test of ability rather than circumstance in all but one area!

    Have a witnessed stalk, a real one, not a walk round a field as in DSC1. Whether that stalk is successful or not, the various elements can be signed off as to safety and competency. The examiners MUST assume that if the candidate is competent on that one occasion then there is no reason to assume he will suddenly forget everything and become incompetent on the next... after all, a good stalk and safe firearms handling CANNOT happen by accident! If a beast is shot, great, if it is not then the only thing that cannot be signed off is shot placement on the beast. As DSC2 requires at least *some* prior experience it should be safe to assume that the candidate has managed to successfully dispatch previous beasts.. that along with a further marksmanship tests should be proof enough but.. see phase 2 for additional evidence

    The second phase should be allowed to be carried out on either park or farmed deer.. That way the taking of a beast is all but guaranteed and the rest of the candidates competence can be confirmed (as well as their marksmanship!) Again, there *must* be an assumption that the candidate will not suddenly forget what he has done... One is more than sufficient!

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