cautionary anecdote re ballistic tips

pete evans

Well-Known Member
I have started using nosler 70g ballistic tips in .243, prior to this I have used 100g spbt. The reason I changed was that I shoot quite a bit of fox and wanted a round that would handle fox and roe muntjac. Several people I know use this round and it seemed like a good compromise.
On saturday I went out for a morning stalk, called in a couple of bucks. The first buck didnt offer a safe shot but the second stood perfect broadside at about 70meters. I took the dsc recomended 1/2 way up the body bisecting the front leg. On the shot the sound was that of a good shot but the buck took of like a scolded cat ( no hunching or buckaroo just ran off).
After giving it a couple of minutes I followed him up, there was a good blood trail initially that gradually petered out as it crossed my boundary.
After a bit of a faff and several hours I managed to get permission to follow up the buck and had also enlisted the help of a friend with a dog. searched for 2 hours and nothing.
Feeling well ****ed off and doubting the shot etc decided to go back with the lamp. after went round and saw nothing so went to some other bits and shot a couple of charlies. Dropped by on the way home more in hope than expectation and there he was stood in a stubble field. After doing the necessary he was found to have a surface wound infront of the front leg and also over his sternum. When skinned it appears that the bullet entered where aimed and hardly penetrated but turned 90degrees and came out the sternum. The shoulder and upper leg was smashed. This deer stillmanaged to jump at least 3 fences.
Firstly just glad to find the deer as the wounds already had fly blow and i am certain were mortal. Secondly I am goung to keep the ballistic tips for the fox and use rthe spbt for the deer. Prior to this I have shot several roe and muntjac with the B tips so may be a one off but i dont want to go through that again if I can help it.

Pete
 
Well done Pete for the time and effort you put in on the follow up, thats just the way it should be.

I dont like B/Tips on deer but that is just my opinion.

I know people who use them and swear by them but I dont like the scrapnal they leave in the carcass.

Sierra spitzer are my choice from 100gr to 165gr for my rifles.

You know what they say Pete," if it aint broke why fix it".

Good hunting

Max
 
Hi Pete
With all due respect but maybe you could have checked what the 70gr BT was designed for before you tried it on deer? It's a Varmint round not suitable for deer.
What happened was your fault not the bullet's nor its designer's.
I love BT bullets but chose those designed for medium game.
Regards
Geoshot
 
point taken

i did however take advice from several hunters and one reloading shop and did question the fact that the was marketed as a varmint round but was told by all that they had never encountered problems.
I did anticipate this point being raised but felt i could take the flak if it helped someone else to avoid this scenario.

pete
 
ballistic tips

I binned V-max ages ago for fox, settled on Nosler b-tips 40gn & A-Max 52gn, It's well known A-max does a fantastic job where you would'nt expect it to because of it's original designation as an accuracy round, never had one that did'nt work like a soft nose! :D
 
pete evans said:
point taken

I did anticipate this point being raised but felt i could take the flak if it helped someone else to avoid this scenario.

pete

Well done on that score Pete. I suspect if we all took that view we would all learn a lot more, a lot more quickly!

As said, loads of folk swear by BTs - I don't. SPs have always done the job for me, while I have also seen similar 'odd' wounds caused by BTs. I just stick with what I know works.
 
I stopped using Ballistic tips because of one shot a few year back. A really nice looking but average head roe buck grazing towards me up a glen. It was one of those perfect days where everything was going great.

The buck turned broadside and I made an easy relaxed shot for heart/lungs which I knew was good and the buck went straight down but started kicking hard right away. The buck got back on his feet and went maybe 60 yards further when he went over and stayed down.

When gralloching I couldn't believe the bullet path after the strike. It had hit the rib tight behind the shoulder but deflected wildly back through the guts and the remains of the separated jacket had embedded in the spleen. The carcass was a real mess and I learned that although ballistic tips make a fantastic fox round, for deer a bullet that can be trusted to penetrate in the expected manner is essential.
 
Hi Pete
Fair enough, you asked around and got caught out, easy done I suppose. Fair does to you for raising the issue.
I like BTs, they do shred the lungs and therefore stop the beast quickly and, so far, give a good exit wound too. However, I suspect that if only I had an X-Ray machine or suchlike I would see bits in the chest cavity or elsewhere, which might be a bit off-putting.
I haven't had them wander off in strange ways via the beast, yet.
By the way, as we're helping out others, only the 95gr BT (in Norma's case) is designed for game rather than Varmint , both the 55 & 70gr are Varmint and will explode on a deer's hide or ribs.
The lightest bullet I use in 243 is the Nosler 85gr BTHP, though it can jelly the meat a bit. A mate of mine who shoots little else but Munties swears by Gameking 100gr BTSP, and he hasn't had a runner or ruined carcass, so maybe he is right.
Best regards
Geoshot
 
I have always used gameking or speer both 100g spbt up to now for munties to reds and also fox and never had a problem. Shouldnt have messed with a winning formula really. live and learn
 
geoshot said:
both the 55 & 70gr are Varmint and will explode on a deer's hide or ribs.

Is it not high time that Nosler changed the name of one of the catagories of ballistic tips to avoid the confusion.

Look at Hornady SST-Deer, V-Max-Fox. Simple.

Nosler Ballistic tips for deer & fox in an identical box,with the same bullet name on the side. A bit of a lack of fore sight it seems to me.

If every deer stalker who had had issues like these with a bullet not doing what they thought it would when they bought it emailed nosler, to complain about, the animals suffering, being out all night looking for a wounded deer, not finding the beast, and having it lie rotting encouraging foxes amongst any nearby live stock... then their inbox would be full for weeks on end.
 
I'm not sure there's much difference between SP & BT when it comes to leaving shrapnel scatered through the carcass. I remember seeing an xray of a deer shot with a SP bullet and being amazed (horrified??) by the amount of metallic fragments throughout the carcass. I'm struggling to find a link to it but will post it up if I do come across it...

edit - not the one I was thinking of, but one photo here:
http://www.bioone.org/action/showFu...67:BFIDRI]2.0.CO;2&id=i0091-7648-34-1-167-f01
 
There are two types of ballistic tipped rounds.
1 for fox or varmint., in 243 65-75Gr
2. Deer. Above 80gr

They are of a different construction for each intended target.
The ones for deer expand at a different rate to those for varmint.
 
ballistic tips

"They are of a different construction for each intended target.
The ones for deer expand at a different rate to those for varmint."


This is quite correct, and further to this the Nosler website has guidance for the intended delivery velocity for these bullets. The HUNTING ballistic tips are excellant where impact velocity might be around 2600 fps (ie .308 using 150 or 165 gr bullets) but not really designed for being hammered into stuff much faster (ie 130 gr from .270win).


"I'm not sure there's much difference between SP & BT when it comes to leaving shrapnel scatered through the carcass. I remember seeing an xray of a deer shot with a SP bullet and being amazed (horrified??) by the amount of metallic fragments throughout the carcass. I'm struggling to find a link to it but will post it up if I do come across it..."


I also agree with this.... but with some qualification (of course). There are differing types of soft point bullets aswell- just because it is soft point does not mean it is a deer hunting round. Some of the lighter ones in 6mm, for example, are engineered as varminting bullets. sierra do an 80 and 85 gr offering, both are designed for varminting. These will expand too quickly and cause excessive meat damage and not give the penetration required. they will have thin jackets.

there are then bullets of a "cup and core" design. Ie sierras spbt gamekings, pro-hunters and speers spbt bullets. they are faster expanding and (especially in the spbt types) are designed for longer range hunting where the impact velocities are lower and expansion needs to be relatively "softer". They are good performers on game - but in my experience more likely to separate and leave fragments especially when driven at high velocities at fairly close (normal stalking) ranges.

There are also bonded and locked bullets, hornadies interlock, speers Hot Cor, remmingtons core lokt. these are harder bullets designed to retain wieght more and give deeper penetration. They are more suitable for being driven fast into fairly close game. I like the interlock and the hot cor.

And then there are premiums..........

really they are all engineered for specific roles. We should try to use the right horse for the right course.

ruki
 
My tuppence worth

Sierra 85 Gn Gamekings in .243 always did the business for me. My original Tikka 595 didnt like 95 or 100 Gn NBTs, and the 70 Gn NBT gave similar results to those quoted above. Also Sierra are inexpensive compared to Nosler.
 
bullets

This is a tricky one as I use both

Slighty off the BT topic but I sat in a high seat and shot a roe buck with a 308 using federal 150gn SP. The round went where it should have from 75m tops. It then went 90 degrees south through the animal and actually broke its back leg in two when leaving.

not exactly undergunned or with worng bullet, just one of those things. It had clipped the shoulder blade as the buck turned.

It did not leave the scene though which is a major consideration.

Food for thought......
 
A good write up and something we should all take note off, I have used the 70grn BT's but changed to 87grn HP which are more stable on Roe and Fallow.
 
That radiograph image is very interesting. I never realised a bullet could fragment like that (apart from the obvious ones like V-Max etc)! It's completely by luck, but I'm glad I started off with Barnes TSX bullets when I got into reloading. They're a little expensive but for the amount I fire it doesn't matter. I was just impressed by the video on the Barnes site so bought them! :oops:

This forum is a gold mine of information. As a relative newbie to the sport I get a little bogged down with the real technical details at times but I've learned a lot too :D
 
this morning i just shot a fox at 310yards through the heart, broadside with a 55gn .243 ballistic tip (44.5 gn h4895 max load) and it didnt expand, pinholed him, he dropped on the spot but i saw the bullet strike the ground behind. normally they make a real mess or dont exit - never had a pass through with one!
 
bucksden said:
this morning i just shot a fox at 310yards through the heart, broadside with a 55gn .243 ballistic tip (44.5 gn h4895 max load) and it didnt expand, pinholed him, he dropped on the spot but i saw the bullet strike the ground behind. normally they make a real mess or dont exit - never had a pass through with one!

I notice from their website the lower limit is 1600fps, & for hunting ballistic tips the upper limit is 3100fps.
I bet your round was doing more than 1600 though. It seems that v-max are explosive on foxes.
 
DL said:
bucksden said:
this morning i just shot a fox at 310yards through the heart, broadside with a 55gn .243 ballistic tip (44.5 gn h4895 max load) and it didnt expand, pinholed him, he dropped on the spot but i saw the bullet strike the ground behind. normally they make a real mess or dont exit - never had a pass through with one!

I notice from their website the lower limit is 1600fps, & for hunting ballistic tips the upper limit is 3100fps.
I bet your round was doing more than 1600 though. It seems that v-max are explosive on foxes.

probably doing in excess of 2800 fps @ 300 yards accordinng to data / ballistics calculator
 
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