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Thread: Support, (R.prior )

  1. #1

    Support, (R.prior )

    It was nice to get the support of the worlds autothority on Roedeer and he sent a nice letter.I sent the letter to the DCS but it was treated with contempt. The surprise to me was to look on the top shelf of the DCS library and see a line of Richard priors books that they have been using for reference.
    No one can say this man doesn't know his deer welfare.So if you thought you were wrong to go against some of the proposals here is the letter.
    May i also thank Morena for giving me information that backed my Genetics claim it was nice to be backed by such a knowledgeable chap.


    Roe deer, as a native and beautiful species have their rightful place in the Scottish countryside. Management must be aimed at establishing their place in multiple land use without undue conflict with its other components and without compromising our duty to treat all animals with humanity.. Legislation must find a balance between preservation and repression – one as undesirable as the other.
    If the current population is considered too high, would the situation be improved by changing the present legal seasons, incorporating as they do certain exemptions, or does it merely require better and more efficient means for control of damage within them?

    The length of the open season for females.
    To judge by the research which was done over many years at Chedington in West Dorset, the average fawning date for roe in the South of England is 22nd May, but there are quite marked individual variations round this date. Even at Chedington, for four years [1968-72] the average date was 11 May. My own observations range from April 30 to late June. I have no doubt that some roe kids are born during the second half of April. From time to time stalkers report obviously very young roe kids at other times of the year.
    When proposing the legal shooting of near-term pregnant females, an action which is abhorrent to the majority of deerstalkers, the reactions of the general public must also be visualised and taken into consideration. The deer management system could leave itself open to disrepute.
    Regarding the dependence of roe kids, the fact is well-established that lactation is prolonged in Scotland when compared to Southern England. This has not been quantified for Central Scotland, but local experience can confirm whether a significant number of does are still in milk in November. If more than odd individuals are involved, it indicates high dependence by the kids in this area during the preceding two months .. A roe kid deprived of its mother while still suckling loses not only this build-up for its first winter, but the learned behaviour patterns essential for survival.

    The proposal to abolish the close season for males.
    One has to start with the notion that it doesn’t make any difference to a deer whether it is shot in velvet or hard horn or at any time of year
    Where I do see very cogent reasons for restricting the shooting of male deer to a period when females need protection because of dependent young is this: in the months when females can properly be shot, the days are short, the weather often appalling and with the added complication in many places of conflict with other activities, such as game shooting, hiking, winter sports and so on, which makes the achievement of a full cull arduous and difficult. Yet the truth has to be faced, no matter what side you take in the reduction of numbers argument that the only way of reducing the breeding herd of any animal is to reduce the number of females.
    It follows that if in the period you can legitimately cull females you waste time by taking males, that action defeats the whole object.

    Night Shooting
    Lamping makes deer shy and more difficult to stalk at other times. Identification of species or sex is problematical.
    When compared to fox or rabbit shooting, there is a safety element in that instead of aiming at a target about 6 inches or so off the ground, a standing deer presents a more level shot with the risk of the bullet travelling much farther, to the danger of people or livestock. It has, therefore to be restricted to places where undulating ground reduces the risk factor. A general permit would place a heavy burden of responsibility on the individual stalker,



  2. #2
    Why am I not suprised at the response from the DCS.
    They have failed at every opportunity to provide accurate and factual information to substantiate their claims that the whole system of Deer Management in Scotland is fundamentally flawed.

    I have asked the DCS and so have several MSP'S on my behalf to provide factual information regarding several issues that pertain to the draft bill.
    Guess what! non has been forthcoming.
    The reason is blatantly obvious, their claims are erroneous and are without doubt a last ditch attempt to save their sorry arses.

    Who are the DCS answerable to? As civil servants there must be a system in place that will bring them to book for they have admitted that they have MISLED MINISTERS.

    How can we fill in the response form where the questions are biased in favour of the the proposals no matter how we answer them..

    But don't worry I told President Obama that the DCS were responsible for the release of Abdul-Baset el-Megraki, he assured me that Judgement day was imminent!

  3. #3
    It seems that the DCS say one thing while really meaning something else i have wore my brain sore trying to get them to answer very simple questions only to me met with answers that were designed to sound good but mean nothing .Do we think that the dcs will con the MSP,S In my opinion they already have there blatant waist of money is clearly obvious in there accounts but no one will question them unless they ask for more that is the nature of politics.
    We only have a few days left and to me its a done deal unless the MSP,S LISTEN TO THE STALKERS ON THE GROUND.
    They say that the law are draconian and need sorting but to me it is the DCS and Scottish policy that is draconian. What we really need is a WILDLIFE COMMISION for SCOTLAND a BODY THAT LOOKS AFTER THE NEEDS OF ALL OUR WILD LIFE WITH OUT COMPROMISE.

  4. #4
    The letter from Richard Prior confirms what we, as stalkers already know and appreciate and what the DCS constantly ignore. Their attitude to the whole matter of the deer welfare issue has been appalling, with the welfare of the deer coming a good way down the list after their own welfare and self preservation.

    They have deliberately misled Government with claims of gun incidents resulting in injury, there has been a interview withdrawn by the BBC during which their head was making statements which only he seemed to privy to. Now they have the gall to ignore a Letter from Richard Prior, a leading expert on deer in general and roe in particular, probably the worlds leading authority.

    LDG is right, the matter of Scottish wildlife, all wildlife, should be considered as a whole. Every body responsible for any particular section, whether it be birds, foxes, badgers whatever will promote their own interest's above any other. Therefore a Wildlife Commission tasking everything into account to co-exist harmoniously would be a good thing. Especially for deer as the DCS appear not to like deer.


  5. #5
    None of this really suprises me. Once again you have a disfunctional organisation making disfunctional rules to please there own aims, and as Griff points out to save their sorry arses.

    If this goes ahead it will be the death nail for many scottish sporting estates who are already struggling to make ends meet, and could put stalkers out of a job and home.

    Trust the Scottish executive to make the right decision after all they have just let a convicted mass murderer of some 200 plus soles out on compasionate grounds, and yet they appear to have shown no compasion for the folk who died on the ground and in the air.

    I wonder how many of the scottish people who wanted an executive are now wishing they had stuck with westminster.


    Sorry a bit off thread but it makes my blood boil after sending 2 emails to two MSPS and neither have had the decency to reply. They could not Pi// into the wind straight any of them.

  6. #6
    Sika Malc you can now go to there boss and demand an answer they must answer mail that is current and relevant to a Scottish Bill.
    With regards the letting out of a murderer i hate to think the reception i am going to get in the USA this year my Kilt will be left at home and my head held low in shame.

  7. #7
    Any 'response' to DCS must be backed up by a letter or email or surgery visit to your MSP. By responding to the DCS you are essentially having a conversation with the monkey. Always go for the organ grinder as it is their job at risk from the voters. Sad fact is, in this country, that the monkeys will always get another job with the next set of organ grinders.

  8. #8

    I hate to tell you this but there was mention on the main ITV news last night that someone in the States had opened up a website demanding that everyone boycotts all Scottish imports, and that they also do not take any holidays in Scotland or come to that England.

    It would seem said website is getting some considerable support as well. I would leave the kilt at home if I where you and start practicing on loosing your scottish accent



    Ps going to their boss ehh, hmmm would that be the one with the single brain cell or the inteligent one with two

  9. #9
    Again guys, well done to those who have made the effort to put forward our case in reflection of current issues.

    This further exposes the DCS and their move to turn deer management into a industry that only serves their interests. What happened to tradition and the whole ethos of deer management that makes it what it is.

    I pity these people who only care about the political and economic management of organisations. Sad and misguided puppets, proposing that the majestic red deer stag have no season and simply amount to vermin said it all really.

  10. #10
    Sadly, it's the usual scenario.

    Politicians and quango's spouting off and creating rules and laws about something that they know almost zero about, that doesn't need 'fixing'. Frequently seemingly either to justify their own jobs / get votes next time round, or to please city-types who know nothing about the countryside and wildlife, or both.

    Can anyone think of any situations where the above does not apply in the world of politics and quango's? I'm struggling to remember them!


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