RTA Volunteers / Humane Dispatch Pistol Owners - A question...

BunnyDoom

Well-Known Member
I've just come back from my second RTA this week - in both cases I used my .38 Special Taurus Ultralite (2" barrel, 150 grain round nose American Eagle bullets)...

The one today felt like a cluster-f*ck so I'll give you some background then ask if those with actual experience would kindly make comment - don't worry I won't cry if I get criticism, I'd appreciate any constructive feedback too though if anyone thinks I've done something wrong. I'd like to know if I've done something wrong as although I'm confident killing deer there isn't any formal training on this type of activity. I've not had any issues in the past with RTA's but these have all been Roe as I live on the south coast.

I was in bed all day with a dodgy tum, had several missed calls and eventually picked up to a desperate control centre asking if I could go and dispatch a wounded deer - I said I was ill but depends how far it was. She advised it was only ten mins away and the deer was immobile despite being approached by the officer in attendance. She also said she'd had a refusal from another volunteer so I was the only person. I said I'd go and do it on the proviso the officer waited and that they would sort out carcass disposal.

I arrived on the scene 10 mins later - I only took the pistol as I'd been assured I could get close to the animal and didn't feel up to wrestling the usual kit into the car (shotgun & rifle as well as pistol). It was a young fallow buck and was indeed immobile by the side of the road. It had blood around its mouth so I decided to put it down ASAP. At this stage I was happy with the pistol as my choice as the animal was in a heavily brambled ditch next to a busy road - so a discreet close quarters weapon was ideal. The police car and officer were keeping traffic from getting too close so I knelt into within 2ft cocked the hammer, and squeezed.

One between the eyes... nope. Another one between the eyes... still wheezing! Another three in the back of the head... still going! Another one at the back of the neck... nope. Another one between the eyes. STILL NO! - now I'll add that after the first shot it wasn't going anywhere, but I was still getting eye response even after the SEVENTH SHOT! After the seventh shot I just jumped on him and stuck him in the heart with my knife - a short while later he'd bled out and was still/dead. Officer in attendance said "he didn't want to go did he!".

Had that been a shot with my 17hmr or centrefires I know there would have been very little left of the head, let alone any issue with a quick kill. The Roe buck I shot in the head with the 38spl on Monday showed very little damage to the skull (though did at least die quickly with one shot). You would think 7 shots with a 38 would have obliterated the skull, but the shots appeared as no more than small red dots.

So my questions to any of you with experience are:
- Is the 38 enough gun for this purpose? Fallow?
- Is there somewhere else you aim on the head that is 100% effective? (though I think I hit pretty much everywhere!)
- What's your take on the above?
- What calibre and rounds are you using?
- Does anyone know what effect the 2" barrel has on power?
- Could this have been to the round nose slugs over penetrating and not expanding?

Probably not a popular thing to mention - but I've heard of plenty of deer large and small dropping to a .22lr to the head, let alone 7 shots from a 38 special!

Thanks in advance,
​BD
 
i have never done anything like this but i have been told that to dispatch at close range as described you sould be aiming half way between the and the ear? i may be wrong but i think it was in the DSC1 book.
 
So my questions to any of you with experience are:
- Is the 38 enough gun for this purpose? Fallow?
- Is there somewhere else you aim on the head that is 100% effective? (though I think I hit pretty much everywhere!)

- yes it's enough
- imagine a line from right eye to left ear and left eye to right ear, the intersection is the spot
 
You should have removed the head for analysis! lol

Sounds like bu some fluke you missed the brainstem. I suppose a fat heavy slug that doesn't fragment much may not do as much damage as a small fast frangible projectile.

​I once killed a wounded deer with a knife as I had nothing else, I pinned it down as quickly as I could and bled it at the base of the neck abattoir style. If expired quite quickly.
 
There'll always be the odd beast that just won't go. Thick head or something!
I do quite a lot of slaughtering using a .410 shotgun.
Kills everything from small pigs and lambs right up to full grown cattle, no problem.
However, I once shot a big horned billy goat at point blank in the forehead and he just dropped to his knees briefly before jumping up and coming straight for me! Had to climb a fence to get away. Took two more shots to finish him. It wasn't nice, but these things do occasionally happen.
 
Short barrelled pistols are very inaccurate, even at close range. I've worked with pistols for years but would never contemplate using one for an RTA! Dangerous (ricochet) and not very effective as proved by yourself. Imagine trying that with one of the bigger antlered species! Shot placement is critical to destroy the brain with a calibre such as that.
I only ever use a shotgun if I can help it. I normally reach for a fully moderated folding .410 which I use 18gram No. 6 shot. Makes a hole in the forehead about the size of a 10p piece from a short distance away which completely destroys the brain as the shot disperses inside. No exit wound and no danger from ricochet or splashback. Much easier to aim and hit a possibly moving animal too!
Only ever needed 1 shot even on larger deer although I will take the 12 bore along for a big beast! Get rid of it, to avoid embarrassment if nothing else!
MS
 
Thanks all, sounds like I went for the right spot the first two times... so just an unlucky fluke I guess.

Maybe in time we could all put together a bit of a handbook for people new to it or offer a mentoring service - when I've done a lot more I'd certainly be happy to... few years away for me though I reckon.
 
A 2" barrel would reduce the velocity and produce a loud bang 4" a better optin ,back in the day when pistols about there was a discussion on this very subject .I'll try and dig it out .125gr jhp from a 4" gun would be better after all the deer act says expanding ammunition for deer doesn't it ?
 
MS - thanks that's interesting, I've a moderated .410 also that I use for foxes in traps and as you say it's very efficient.

Mate of mine has a long barrelled larger calibre that he's v accurate with so might chop my 38 in at some point.
 
you've become flustered when the first shot didn't do the job that's all, if the first was in the skull then it was done but might have needed a minute. The pistol calibre you have is perfect but the bullet needs to be right in the brain ideally. A shotgun is not as discreet but certainly a far more certain tool. Having dinged a few things with the .22 when there's been an issue I'd say that from behind on above into the skull is a must and at as close as you can get but with at least 6 inches clearance.
 
how do you volunteer for something like this, is it just with the local police and FC. and is there a set protocol for dispatching on the highways.
sorry i know its going away from the thread a little.
 
The problem is not the gun but the ammunition. Wasn't made by Remmington by any chance?

I had a very similar story with a sheep with prolapsed intestines about a year ago. Grabbed gun and new box of ammo - gun went bang and sheep sat there looking at me. Thought I'd messed up and shot it again (both times 100% in the right place) - still sat there looking at me. As the sheep was in a field I took a third shot at the back of the skull that killed the sheep. I then shot off the rest of the box into a muck heap.

The best killing ammunition I have used is made by Kynoch and loaded specifically for destruction of animals at close range. Looking at the Kynoch and Remmington ammo in your hand you'd struggle to tell them apart, but the difference in real life is amazing.

If the deer was as immobile as you say then a captive bolt is good to have and can live under the seat of the car. I still have shotgun as number 1 tool above everything else and a moderated .410 would be perfect. I have pistols often with me in the car and it is way down my list of tools for the job.
 
A shotgun is not as discreet but certainly a far more certain tool.

I would say that one shot from a moderated folding .410 shotgun with subsonic load is far more discrete than 7 shots from an un-moderated pistol, or even one shot for that matter!
I shot a fallow one Sunday morning outside someones bungalow. He came out to see what i was doing and refused to believe that I'd just shot it as he'd not heard anything!:lol:
I've done loads inside towns and villages without issue.
I once approached a Fallow which had a broken leg. As I got to about 10 yards it leapt up and tried to run! Thankfully the shotgun was ready and I quickly smacked it in the back of the head/neck. Smashed the Atlas joint and killed it outright. Try that with a 2" pistol!!:D
MS:)
 
how do you volunteer for something like this, is it just with the local police and FC. and is there a set protocol for dispatching on the highways.
sorry i know its going away from the thread a little.

The Sussex scheme is run by the licensing dept - get in touch with yours and see if your county has something similar. Many don't as they leave it to the police or RSPCA.

Its a good scheme, but I don't get any expenses back and costs of fuel and ammo do wrack up... plus sometimes call outs are middle of the night. With enough volunteers though no one would have to go far, and it's nice to give something back - tonight I saved an armed response officer an hours drive to shoot something he/she may not have any knowledge of (though an MP5 would have been handy!)
 
Short barrelled pistols are very inaccurate, even at close range.

Just want to clarify, that it's not the pistol that's inaccurate but the shooter. I'd bet that with the gun in question, I'd put the 7 shots in to a group the size of my palm at 25y. If it's the model with exposed hammer and no, I don't have particularly big palms...

BunnyDoom, if you keep using the Taurus, you may consider special loads which are made for short barrel revolvers. They have faster powder so less muzzle flash, and usually lighter expansive bullets. Here's an example:

Speer Ammo - Short Barrel

If such loads are not available, you may consider lead semiwadcutter (LSWC) or even wadcutter (LWC). They will reduce the danger of ricochets and provide terminal better terminal ballistics than round nose. My only concern is, that LWC being quite soft and hollow base, the powder used could be on the slow side and thus the muzzle velocity from short barrel may be even lower than the usual 210-220m/s.
 
I once approached a Fallow which had a broken leg. As I got to about 10 yards it leapt up and tried to run! Thankfully the shotgun was ready and I quickly smacked it in the back of the head/neck. Smashed the Atlas joint and killed it outright.

Was this with the nro 6 shot or something bigger? How does your shotgun pattern at this distance (what's the total dispersion of shot), and do you feel the moderator tightens the pattern?
 
Just want to clarify, that it's not the pistol that's inaccurate but the shooter. I'd bet that with the gun in question, I'd put the 7 shots in to a group the size of my palm at 25y. If it's the model with exposed hammer and no, I don't have particularly big palms...

So, you'd bet that you could put 7 consecutive shots into about the equivalent of a 4" circle with a 2" barrelled pistol at 25 yards!????????:lol: Dream on!:rolleyes:

Was this with the nro 6 shot or something bigger? How does your shotgun pattern at this distance (what's the total dispersion of shot), and do you feel the moderator tightens the pattern?

I should have stated that this was actually with a standard 12 bore SBS. If I remember correctly it was a 36 gram No. 4 shot load (lead). I suppose you would you have got that one with your pistol as well?:-|
MS:)
 
accuracy

So, you'd bet that you could put 7 consecutive shots into about the equivalent of a 4" circle with a 2" barrelled pistol at 25 yards!????????:lol: Dream on!:rolleyes:



I should have stated that this was actually with a standard 12 bore SBS. If I remember correctly it was a 36 gram No. 4 shot load (lead). I suppose you would you have got that one with your pistol as well?:-|
MS:)

when I was pistol shooting ten shots into the nine-ten ring at 25 metres was the norm by quite a few shooters ,once the bullet is stabilised a 2" is as accurate as a 6" , what's lacking is velocity .
:old:
 
More Olympic standard pistol shooters on here, than at the Olympics, for injured animals 410, or 12 gauge all the way, and yes I do shoot lb pistol every week. Captive bolt is a option, but heavy and obviously no good if you can,t get close.
 
Back
Top