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Thread: German/Machinist help needed

  1. #1
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    German/Machinist help needed

    I have recently bought a Ruger No1. I had heard about the scope eye relief problems but thought 'I'll get around that. How BAD can it be??'
    It's BAD, very very BAD. Maybe I just have a short inflexible neck.
    So I bought in a picatinny/weaver scope rail from the USA and attached it ( pic 2 ). It helps but it is still not comfortable and if your going to shoot well you have to be comfortable.
    So I imported a scope with attached rails from Germany ( pic 3 ) and it will do the job nicely. But I now have to attach the scope to the picatinny rail.
    So does somebody make what I need or can a machinist on here make me what I need??
    The scope has to end up as seen in pic 1
    Oh and i phoned one place in England that dealt with this sort of stuff. They reckoned normal scope, silver solder on claw mounts, re-proof £450+price of furniture (mounts)
    Attachment 26946Attachment 26947Attachment 26948
    “Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”........Dalai Lama

  2. #2

    scope mounting

    What scope are you using,
    I have a ruger no1 and fitted a leupold vx111 on standard ruger mounts without any problem, and a few guys off the directory have used it without any eye relief problems.
    You may be better off getting a different scope with longer eye relief.
    Ruger do make offset mounts but I dont think you will get it as far back as you need looking at your pictures.
    Another thing to look at is LOP, you may be able to loose an inch off the stock depending on fit.
    sorry I cant help with the engineering side though.
    sinbad
    Last edited by sinbad; 11-04-2013 at 22:06.
    I wish I was half the hunter my dog thinks I am

  3. #3
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    OK. So you have bought an American rail that is designed to take American (Weaver or Warne) type rings that have a steel rectangular bar across their base. This bar laying in the rectangular slots that are machined into you rail. These American rings will be, other than that, standard rings to fit a perfect tube on an American style telescopic sight.

    You have also bought a German 'scope that is designed, with typical German throroughness, with a "prism" along its underside. The idea is that you use special "rings" that are not really rings at all but a standard type base that where the ring is has an open groove machined into it that slides along the rail (or "prism") on your 'scope.

    The idea being that as long as the top of the rifle is square the mount will be square and so, because of the groove in the mount and the rail (or "prism") so the 'scope will be square. And thus the crosshaits in the exact vertical plane.

    Some mixed marriages work. This one...won't!

    So the solution is EITHER an all around TUBE bodied 'scope or a set of German style bases that will take the rail on your German style 'scope!

    The cheapest option is probably to ditch the 'scope and get an American style one. The other option is to get German style bases. THESE ARE NOT AS EXPENSIVE AS YOU FEAR. The worst option and to be instantly dismissed is to machine the rail (or "prism") off your 'scope.

    OK. So German mounts are made by Apel specfically for these German 'scopes with that rail or "Prism". These mounts will come available to mate with various base fittings SOME OF WHICH will be American Weaver style or warne style bases. They may, or may not, also be available to fit a Picatinny rail type base such as yours.

    Apel or rather EAW has a vast on-line catalogue and you will find bases that will allow a mixed marriage such as yours I believe.

    My own advice would be to sell the German 'scope and source a US 'scope with the correct eye relief that you need and mount it using Weaver or Warne style detachable mounts. It will also be the cheapest option!

    Might I suggest that you e-mail your problem to Leupold who make these Weaver or Warne style (that is the important word STYLE) and also 'scopes. I am sure that they may be able to advise on sorting the eye relief problem.

    As SINBAD posts American 'scopes generally have more eye relief fexibility than do German 'scopes. I think that your German 'scope is, sadly, best sold and replaced with a more user friendly Leupold!
    Last edited by enfieldspares; 11-04-2013 at 22:10.

  4. #4
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinbad View Post
    What scope are you using,
    I have a ruger no1 and fitted a leupold vx111 on standard ruger mounts without any problem, and a few guys off the directory have used it without any eye relief problems.
    You may be better off getting a different scope with longer eye relief.
    Ruger do make offset mounts but I dont think you will get it as far back as you need looking at your pictures.
    sinbad
    Scope is Docter ZF 6x42 eye relief approx 3.5 inches.
    “Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”........Dalai Lama

  5. #5

  6. #6
    That scope seems to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far back.

    When I had my Ruger No1B is had standard Ruger rings and a Leupold Vari X 111 2.5-8x36 scope on it and it worked just fine. No problems with eye relief for me or any that tried it. Most only tried a few shots and decided that was enough as they felt the recoil was too harsh. It was chambered for the 300 Winchester Magnum cartridge.

  7. #7
    Teyhan,

    you need to work on your shooting style and how you position your cheek on the butt of the stock. There should be no need to have the scope that far back. If it's not your shooting style, have you considered the stock might be too long for you?
    “One does not hunt in order to kill; one kills in order to have hunted.” - Jose Ortega y Gasset

  8. #8
    My first thought is length of pull is far to long for you, or at least for the way you mount the rifle to the shoulder/face.
    First thing to try is a set of weaver rings and borrow another scope with 4 inches or more of eye relief and see how that feels.

    I had a similar problem with my Blaser R93 and a Zeiss Classic Divari, simple fix for me was shorten the stock.
    But first you could try the following, remove the scope, shoulder the rifle as if it had iron sights, once comfortable
    get somebody to mark the stock comb level with where your eye is, next remount the scope in normal ruger mounts.
    Now shine a torch through the scope from the objective end while holding a piece of card behind the ocular lens
    You can then move the card back and forth until the spot of light is at it's smallest, that is the eye relief of "your" scope.
    Obviously the card should be close to inline with the mark on the comb.

    Neil.

  9. #9
    SD Regular NorthDorset's Avatar
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    Tayhan you aren't far from me mate.

    I have a set of Warne mounts for a picatinny and a stupid long scope or two. Would you like to get together with me and my box of bits and see what we can see?

    Yes what you are setting up there looks MAD!
    Yes I should have taken the Blue Pill!

    We were so busy congratulating ourself of dodging Orwells vision we marched right into Huxley's.

  10. #10
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthDorset View Post
    Tayhan you aren't far from me mate.

    I have a set of Warne mounts for a picatinny and a stupid long scope or two. Would you like to get together with me and my box of bits and see what we can see?

    Yes what you are setting up there looks MAD!
    I would like that very much North D. Just so I know I'm not slightly going wobbly.
    Also please bear in mind everyone that I am not a newby to this, having shot rifles in excess of 28 years and mounted many scopes to many rifles and shot hundreds of deer, but am happy to admit that I don't know everything and am happy to take your advice
    Last edited by teyhan1; 12-04-2013 at 07:49.
    “Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”........Dalai Lama

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