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Thread: permision letter

  1. #1

    permision letter

    a mate of mine has had permission to shoot on some land . he does not hav an fac but has been stalking with me and has the bug.if he wants to use my rifle as an estate rifle does the permission need to be in my name or is it ok in his . any advice would be greatful.

  2. #2
    As far as I know you would need permission to shoot there (as this confers the right for you to let hi, use your rifle under the estate rifle clause).

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by toad View Post
    a mate of mine has had permission to shoot on some land . he does not hav an fac but has been stalking with me and has the bug.if he wants to use my rifle as an estate rifle does the permission need to be in my name or is it ok in his . any advice would be greatful.
    Bit of a minefield there Toad. I would read carefully past debates on the exact meaning of estate rifle and the guidance that BASC gives on this very subject.
    It's the calibre of the shooter that counts not the calibre of the rifle.

  4. #4
    You are not going to loan your rifle to anybody Toad especially someone without an FAC. However if you are stalking or sitting with someone and you pass them the rifle for a shot, I think you will be fine as long as that person is not prohibited or under age and one of you has permission.
    However as 8x57 says look at the BASC guidance on the subject.

  5. #5
    HAVE A LOOK FELLER MAY HELP YOU OUT AS
    PER
    BASC BORROWING RIFLES ON PRIVATE PREMISES

    Note:The law has recently changed due to “The Firearms (Amendment) Regulations 2010” –
    this document has been amended to incorporate the age changes given by the regulations.
    Section 16 (1) Firearms Amendment Act 1988 allows a non certificate holder
    to borrow a rifle and use it in the presence of either the occupier of private
    premises or their servant without holding a firearm certificate. The following
    criteria must be met;
    The borrower must be aged 17 years or older.
    NEW - The occupier or his servant (the lender) must be aged 18 years of age or
    older whenever they are lending to the 17 year old age group. For borrowers
    aged 18 or older the lending certificate holder may be of any age.
    The lender must be the “occupier” of private land or “a servant of the occupier”.
    The occupier and/or their servant must hold a firearm certificate in respect of
    the firearm being used.
    The rifle must be borrowed and only used on land occupied by the person
    lending the rifle.
    The rifle must always remain in the presence of the lender (The term “in the
    presence of” is not defined in law but is generally interpreted as being within
    sight and earshot.)
    The borrower must comply with the conditions on the lenders’ FAC e.g. the
    quarry species.
    Notes:
    1.
    The exemption does not extend to other types of firearm.

    2.
    Home Office guidance directs;
    “The term “occupier” is not defined in the Firearms Acts, nor has a Court clarified its
    meaning. However, the Firearms Consultative Committee in their 5th Annual report
    recommended that the provisions of section 27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act1
    1981 be adopted. This states that ‘“occupier” in relation to any land, other than the
    foreshore, includes any person having any right of hunting, shooting, fishing or taking
    game or fish’. In the absence of any firm definition for firearms purposes, it is
    suggested that each chief officer of police may wish to make use of this definition.”
    3.
    Section 57(4) of the 1968 Act defines “premises” as including any land.
    The foreshore is land, however it is predominately Crown or Duchy owned but some
    for example, is owned or leased by private individuals, local authorities or other
    groups. The rifle exemption may only be utilised on foreshore in England and Wales
    where the lender is an owner/occupier/lease holder who maintains the shooting
    rights. In the case of a lease, the lease must allow the use of rifles. Crown leases
    do not allow the use of rifles. In England and Wales the foreshore is that part of the
    seashore which is more often than not covered by the flux and reflux of the four
    ordinary tides occurring midway between springs and neaps.
    In Scotland there is a general right to recreation on the foreshore
    (except onOrkney and Shetland). This includes the shooting of wildfowl using a shotgun only
    and where the right has not been taken away by statute, e.g. nature reserves.
    Accordingly the public may not use the foreshore to use or lend rifles. In Scotland
    the foreshore is the area of land between the high and low water marks of ordinaryspring tides.
    Quote Originally Posted by toad View Post
    a mate of mine has had permission to shoot on some land . he does not hav an fac but has been stalking with me and has the bug.if he wants to use my rifle as an estate rifle does the permission need to be in my name or is it ok in his . any advice would be greatful.

  6. #6
    The person who holds the FAC must either be the occupier of the land or the servant of the occupier. Simple permission does not necessarily make your friend the occupier. What is an occupier for the purpose of taking deer is not defined in law however the accepted view is it is someone who holds the deer rights or is the owner etc.
    In the terms outlined by your original post, it would be unlawful for you as the guest to lend the firearm to your friend.

    We then move on to the question of 'servant' and that opens a new debate. Once again not defined but could include someone who has permission to cull deer and is allowed to keep the carcass as a 'reward'.
    Have a good look at the BASC website and talk to the 'occupier' but do not do as outlined in the original post as matters stand at present.

  7. #7
    ok do you know if it needs to state deer stalking or will the right to shoot be enough

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by toad View Post
    ok do you know if it needs to state deer stalking or will the right to shoot be enough
    In order to lend your rifle under the 'estate rifle' exemption, you,(the fac holder) not your friend, will need to become the occupier or servant of the occupier.
    You will need the deer included in any permission but that is only a part of the situation. Occupier or servant of the occupier is the other vital factor.

  9. #9
    thanks norm very helpful . is there a prewritten letter that you know of that i could fill with my details and print. i just want to get it spot on . regards ken

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by paul o' View Post


    This states that ‘“occupier” in relation to any land, other than the
    foreshore, includes any person having any right of hunting, shooting, fishing or taking
    game or fish

    Therefore if you have any right of hunting (ie permission) then this make you an occupier of the land in question (under the terms of this act).


    BASC standard for shooting permission letter link below
    http://www.basc.org.uk/en/utilities/...03447E57CDBE3B
    Last edited by palmer_mike; 14-04-2013 at 18:36. Reason: permission slip

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