Can BDS Courses Help with restrictions on rifles

john444334

Well-Known Member
Can The DSC1 Course Help with restrictions when applying for my first deer rifle?

Currently hold 1 centerfire for fox control on designated ground, Rimfires all open condition. Fac held for 12 years

All thought appreciated

John
 
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Yes, but to the novice there is a lot more value in the DSC1 course in extending your basic knowledge. atb Tim
 
Although the BDS run DSC1 courses are widely acknowledged as being amoungst the best available, I doubt that the training provider would have any bearing on firearms licencing issues. I think that it is the qualification they look at not the provider.

If you are new to deer stalking then I'm sure you would enjoy doing DSC1 and also gain a lot from it.

You might be pleasantly suprised as they may not restrict you at all with a 12 year history of firearms ownership.
 
DSC 1 will teach you a lot but you still will have to show good reason to own and use one, letters from places you have booked stalking or have permission to stalk deer is needed.
 
yep DSC1 is a usefully course, and it does help with your FAC to some degree, as its show a level of comitment, i think you need to some land with deer on though or pre booked stalking to justifly it.
atb
simon
 
As long as you have "good reason" for the rifle then the DSC should be neither here nor there. That said, the DSC course is a good foundation for future stalking. Even though I have done a fair ammount of stalking I learned plenty from it ;)
 
Can The DSC1 Course Help with restrictions when applying for my first deer rifle?

Currently hold 1 centerfire for fox control on designated ground, Rimfires all open condition. Fac held for 12 years

All thought appreciated

John

Yes, if you have the DSC1 AND can show in writing that you have a landowners permission to hunt deer AND have done or at least can proof you have booked approx. 5 stalks under the guidance of a professional, the Police is more likely to remove restrictions. But every case is looked at on an individual basis, taking other issues into consideration as well. Also there are large differences in approach from County to County.
 
sorry surely the only limiting factor here is deer

you either have them or don't

If I had been shooting foxes at night for 12 years and some FLO requested I did DSC1 before getting "deer" typed on a bit of paper I would tell him to shove it!!

Instead of pandering to the obsession with certificates and diplomas which are largely irrelevant I suggest we as sportsman strap on a pair and learn to argue a bit better.
 
sorry surely the only limiting factor here is deer

you either have them or don't

If I had been shooting foxes at night for 12 years and some FLO requested I did DSC1 before getting "deer" typed on a bit of paper I would tell him to shove it!!

Instead of pandering to the obsession with certificates and diplomas which are largely irrelevant I suggest we as sportsman strap on a pair and learn to argue a bit better.

I totally agree with you if you read my post that is what I said you put it rather more strongly
 
If you have a fox rifle then you have experience in handling a rifle which is all that is required. If you need a deer condition for small deer or a larger calibre for larger deer then the police have no grounds to refuse.

Any restrictions or refusals made after the grant if a fox calibre or even rimfire will show the police force to be animal welfare centric around deer or plain unhelpful.

Such behaviour should be notified to BASC if you are a member or complained about to the police and crime commissioner for your area.

courses can help you as an individual but where you own a rifle already the evidence is present to show the chief officer has no concerns about you for public safety on his side. A new calibre or soecues does somehow make you dangerous. Inexperienced licensing staff will often fixate on bullet diameter or recoil of a larger cartridge being asked for, the bullet has left the muzzle by the time recoil takes effect. A rifle is a rifle, you are either safe or not and unhelpful nitpicking by licensing staff between a .223 & .243 for example is like arguing about bitter or larger, they both get you drunk if you drink too much.

Don't kowtow to the police, resist their restrictive attitude and seek representation from organisations like BASC
 
+1, fed up of hearing that dsc will get you this or that, it has nothing to do with your ability to be a safe shot, as to showing your commitment, what is that about, I once did a home brewing course I am now not a alcoholic.
 
I've never been on a home brewing course, yet I've just bottled another 25 gallon of beer, ale, stout, lager, and cider, and am contemplating casking another 10 gallons of ale and cider for the Summer. I read about brewing from books, and know that there's nothing illegal about it. Yet I rarely drink, and if I do its only one or two, mainly I give it away.

Edit: I also have 4 gallon of Damson Wine brewing, picked from a tree in my garden last Autumn, and enough Damsons in the freezer to make another 5 gallons.

However, although I have known how to handle a gun safely since my early twenties, having been a TAVR soldier, I've never fired at a live deer or walked/driven about fields with a rifle and live rounds hunting, or done so at night, unless a military exercise with blank rounds, as most of my shooting has been on targets, previously Figure 11 or 12, now its NSRA round targets available from Bisley. At almost every turn with a firearm you can either find yourself facing prosecution, or worse, and by putting a step wrong lose your guns forever to a revocation. I personally need the DSC1, I've learned a hell of a lot and realise that even when the course is over, pass or fail, I still have a lot more to learn.

I'm not expecting that the DSC1 will get me an open licence, I'm going to have to work at that, and show proof that I can be trusted. The situation for me is a little different, I already have a slot for two deer calibre's, in .223 and 6.5x55, as target rifles, I'll just be applying for the conditions to change, after I've bought them.

Yes, I know its all mainly common sense, but the difference between home brewing and shooting is vast.
 
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The situation for me is a little different, I already have a slot for two deer calibre's, in .223 and 6.5x55, as target rifles, I'll just be applying for the conditions to change, after I've bought them.


I struggle to understand how in the police's eye you are perfectly safe and competent with two calibres getting to and from a range and whilst on the range but as soon as you want to shoot a deer you require a certificate comprising a range day that my 8 year old son could pass and some multiple choice questions that can be done over a weekend?

This is not an animal welfare issue or we would have a test for all quarry.
IMO the DSC1 does not cover enough of the safety aspect to be of significant value (and the Police are and should ONLY be concerned with safety)

Don't get me wrong, i do see the value of having a self regulated competency test and associated training but they have ZERO to do with safe use of firearms just because deer are involved.
If the Police want a competency based authority to posses then they should lobby for a national one for ALL firearms/shotguns but they haven't
They have just jumped on the bandwagon of DMQ and are now using it against applicants
 
Its all a bit backwards when the police happily let novices shoot in the dark with fox calibres, but shooting deer in daylight needs testing?
 
Wireless my comparison between dsc and brewing, was that having a dsc does not make you a safe stalker, the same as having a brewing course will not make you a drinker.
 
I struggle to understand how in the police's eye you are perfectly safe and competent with two calibres getting to and from a range and whilst on the range but as soon as you want to shoot a deer you require a certificate comprising a range day that my 8 year old son could pass and some multiple choice questions that can be done over a weekend?

Well, I think a weekend would be pushing it (for me), but not everyone that attends a range to shoot paper is accurate, or has instruction to improve accuracy, and if you're shooting any live quarry your groups should be small enough at your given range to allow accurate shot placement. I'm thinking of people I've met at the range with open sights ex-WW2 carbine rifles that cannot see bullet holes in white paper at 50 metres, and admit they can't actually see the target they're aiming at, and make no adjustments to the sights...trusted yes, accurate no, but still safe.

There's a lot of safety awareness on this BDS course, but I'm always going to be unhappy about having a chambered round while walking about protected from the firing pin only by a safety catch. I guess the military training in me finds this unsafe, indeed I'm much more comfortable with the rifle 'Made Safe', without a chambered round ('German Safe' was the term used by Limulus the other day), yes the opportunities might be reduced for a quick shot, due to a spontaneous opportunity presenting itself, but I don't mind missing out on that.

I'm actually going to be attending LANTRA courses in Pest and Fox Control before I do either.

What the Police and others do regarding competency I cannot comment, however, for my own safety, and that of others, I'm going to attend the courses anyway, whether the Police use them as a benchmark or not.
 
Well, I think a weekend would be pushing it (for me), but not everyone that attends a range to shoot paper is accurate, or has instruction to improve accuracy, and if you're shooting any live quarry your groups should be small enough at your given range to allow accurate shot placement. I'm thinking of people I've met at the range with open sights ex-WW2 carbine rifles that cannot see bullet holes in white paper at 50 metres, and admit they can't actually see the target they're aiming at, and make no adjustments to the sights...trusted yes, accurate no, but still safe.
What the Police and others do regarding competency I cannot comment, however, for my own safety, and that of others, I'm going to attend the courses anyway, whether the Police use them as a benchmark or not.


The Police have (or should have) only two concerns:
Safety
Security

They are administrators of a licensing system.
Just like the DVLA have no interest in your parking ability or tendency to eat ice creams and use your phone whilst driving, the Police should have no concern or interest in animal welfare or accuracy or frequency of your shooting.
Using the DSC system as a benchmark for Firearms ownership is like using RAC membership as a pre-requisite for a driving license
Arse about face!!

A Trained Hunter should be just that. Not in my opinion someone who does not own a rifle or has never shot a deer
There should be a DSC v0.5 for that
 
Ok, point taken, but how does a new shooter get 'trained hunter' status, and receive a qualification number for Game Meat Handling under the EU Food Hygiene Regulations 2005, without holding a DSC1? Can you just attend a Large Game Handling Course to get this qualification?

I'm sure you're tongue in cheek for part of that, but surely just because you own a rifle and have shot a deer doesn't make you a 'Trained Hunter', you have to receive some training from somewhere other than a DSC1, so why not have it formalised? It at least prevents bad habits being 'passed on', and best practice to be the core of the training.

If I am successful in passing the DSC1 in June with the BDS, even though I'll be regarded as having sufficient training in Game Meat Handling as a trained person, I won't feel I am until I've completed a DSC2; does this make the process invalid? I don't have the benefit of some professional willing to teach me, unless I pay for it. I've watched the BDS Gralloch Video, and I've watched other takes on the process on YouTube, I've even watched a qualified butcher and chef cutting up a deer carcass into joints for his restaurant, and various methods of skinning, it doesn't make me an expert, but I will probably do it.

I doubt I'll ever afford the Larder facilities shown in the BDS Gralloch Video, but then I won't be cutting up a carcass and skinning it on the outside porch either, or resting my knives or saw on the waste bin or floor, or wear an apron that hasn't been washed in months (like I've seen), but then I'm not a game dealer or vet, and if I skinned and butchered venison it would be for my own consumption, no-one else's.

I have slots for deer calibres on my FAC, I didn't need a DSC1 for that, but I did need to join a Gun Club, and prove I was safe using Firearms for six months, whats the difference?

You have to start somewhere, and formalised training appears the most sensible option for the majority of people, why knock it?
 
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