Stopping mounts from moving on the rifle

ChrisWill184

Well-Known Member
Hi all

At present i'm using a Brno ZKK 601 in .243 which has been my dads rifle since I don't know when but been having some accuracy problems recently. Have gone through a number of different problem areas and sure it was the scope (an old Tasco 6 x 40 which I think is past its best). Anyway a while back he bought a leopould scope so thought I would straight swap it to the rifle. Apart from the fact that it is a 30 mm diameter scope, the taper from the tube to the front lens is so long that it sits ON the iron sights and hence not into the mounts. The mounts are Parker Hale 17 mm with a stop pin protruding down into the rifle at the front so couldn't just move them 'back a bit'. Rail is a 17 mm dovetail.

Anyway got some different mounts and mounted the scope behind the iron sights but after trying to zero, found that the bases had moved forward (not the scope in the rings) so that the scope was touching the back face of the iron sight (was previously about 2 mm behind before firing a grand total of 12 rounds). Mounts were definitely tight enough but not overly so to weaken them. Needless to say I got scunnered with zeroing and here I am!

Does anyone know of a way to secure bases without having to drill out a new stop pin hole? Don't want to do it but needs must!
 
A good rifle and a reasonable quality scope (presumably there are no defects with either) then just a problem of marrying them together. Glad you got rid of the Parker Hale mounts because these are known to often be the cause of mounting problems with some scopes, been there have the tee shirt. Probably one of the weaker Parker Hale products were their scope rings, you can't beat steel.

Something that is often overlooked is the need for good scope mounts, you don't have to spend a fortune on mounts but having a good solid mounting system that properly fit the rifle is essential.

What mounts do you have now and are trying to make work, and are they actually any better quality than the PH mounts?
 
Are you using Millet Angle Locks? if so, bin them and get some others. The millets are notorious for not only mangling your scope, but also moving under recoil, trust me, been there too!

if you're not using millets, I can only assume you're using hilver, warne's, talley's, alaska arms, conetrol, EAW or Recknagel. Unless you've spent the equivalent of a small house, I'm guessing you've got hilvers or warne's. Both of these should have the integral recoil lug that slots into the LHS of the rear receiver bridge and stops them from moving under recoil, just make sure the lug when mounting the scope is sitting as far forward as possible.

do you have info on what you got or pictures?
 
Look NO further:

czdt_zpsac829f8d.gif

CONETROL DapTar Mounts. Drift them on with a wooden mallet and then tighten hex screws. Job done.

Cheers

K
 
Trying to remeber the rifle and mounting can you post sum close up pics as i may have mounts you may need high and a cheek peice or some warn/type that fit you can have F.O.C just PP
:tiphat:
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately I have no idea! The ones I put on were found in the box of bits that is 'all things shooting' and to be honest only really put them on because they were at hand - they do not look good quality. Wishing I hadn't now and had my doubts if they were up to the task. To be fair the new scope and rings are giving me better groups (2.5 " which is still poor) than before with the old scope but trying to better a shotgun pattern isn't that hard! At present I'm looking for new mounts with the idea that I will drill a small hole for a stop stud in the mounts.

My new problem is now finding mounts that fit a 17 mm dovetail and have 30 mm scope rings. Can find one or the other but not both in the same set up. Have spoke to someone at phillip morris and sons who was very helpful but did not stock them and told me it may be a problem getting them.

If you have any suggestions I could follow up on I am all ears!
 
Thanks for the reply.

My new problem is now finding mounts that fit a 17 mm dovetail and have 30 mm scope rings. Can find one or the other but not both in the same set up. Have spoke to someone at phillip morris and sons who was very helpful but did not stock them and told me it may be a problem getting them.

If you have any suggestions I could follow up on I am all ears!

http://conetrol.com/

They have what you need.

Cheers

K
 
Thanks all for the replies.

I will post some pictures when I get home (Work is getting in the way of my play yet again!) Also will have a better look at what the rings are though they are definitely coming off. They really are poor looking and really only put them on in desperation. Thats how we learn though by making an a**e of things that we should really know better about.
 
Thanks klenchblaize

Work computer won't let me in to the site but will check it out as soon as I get the chance.

You folks really are a helpful bunch!

Any idea what the cost of these are and if you have had any issues with them? Just looking at the picture do they have anything to lock them in to place?
 
Last edited:
....Does anyone know of a way to secure bases without having to drill out a new stop pin hole? Don't want to do it but needs must!

Chris. If at all possible, I would fit a rail to the rifle. I wish I had started using rails 15 years ago. I would have saved myself enough money to buy another rifle. I would suggest calling Craig at http://www.thirdeyetactical.com/thirdeye_website2_011.htm and seeing what he can do for you. Regards JCS
 
30mm mounts for a ZKK is always a nightmare, always! conetrol have what you need, but I've emailed them a bunch of times and for some reason they just choose to ignore me.

I would speak with Morris at Alaska Arms, great service! however, it's going to cost you ;)

If there's a decent smith near you, consider asking him to tig weld the existing dovetails and mill the top of the receiver bridges to accept either remmy 700 or mauser 98 bases, then drill and tap. again, not cheap.

there's decent options for a 1" scope, but a 30mm on a ZKK is like shooting yourself in the foot buddy.
 
Does the ZKK .243 not have the same size dovetail as the CZ550 ?
Standard CZ rings are available in 30mm and Warne also make 30mm rings in several heights.

Neil. :)
 
TBH if your Parker Hale mounts are moving that much under the recoil of a .243 then they are not the right size for your dovetail

To my knowledge most parker hale are weaver size bases 17-19mm
whereas a lot of BRNO receiver dovetails are 15-17mm

sounds like you have tightened the mounts to their limit which is enough to give the feeling of being tight but they do not have purchase on the receiver. Just themselves

I have had parker hales on an unmoderated BSA Majestic Featherweight .270 without the benefit of a recoil pin and they never moved and am pretty sure it has more recoil than any .243! (or any other .2xx calibre centre fire for that matter! it only weight 7lb odd wet through!)

don't believe the hype about PH rings being pants, the older RAHS etc style have better tolerances than half the crud the aftermarket gunshops sell
Aluminium is just as effective at holding scopes as steel

Agree about Millet Mangle Loks, unbelievably bad design and construction, not fit for purpose
 
Does the ZKK .243 not have the same size dovetail as the CZ550 ?
Standard CZ rings are available in 30mm and Warne also make 30mm rings in several heights.

Neil. :)

So I am led to believe. Shouldn't be too hard to find but finding some places are out of stock of the ones i'm looking at. Just depends how much cash I'm willing to part with. Don't mind paying but some stuff is just way over reasonable.

Have had a quick look on here and turns out there are others who have had a similar problem and fixed it. Have given them a shout to see if they remember what they did.

Whats everyones feeling on sportsmatch mounts? They are a reasonable price and not heard too much wrong with them. Not worried about aesthetics. Its for a deer shooting tool and not for the girlfriend to wear!
 
Its not the PH mount that were moving but the different unknown make ones (which are rubbish). The PH ones are not for a 30 mm scope hence my problem. The old scope just can't take the recoil anymore.
 
Any idea what the cost of these are and if you have had any issues with them? Just looking at the picture do they have anything to lock them in to place?

As per my note the mounts come with an interference fit that is such they need to be drifted onto the dovetails with a piece of wood. You then have the further assurance against movement from two meaty screws that clamp the mount either side.

You’ll also need matching rings; you can’t use any but Conetrol “projectionless” 30mm or 25.4mm, that come in three heights and grades. They are not cheap but quality never is and to my eye remain the finest looking setup as they seek to add nothing to the setup. Which prompts me to suggest you resists install of a “rail” based on:


  1. It will very likely ensure the scope’s objective is that much further from the barrel than it need to be.
  2. Restricted access to loading port.
  3. Looks overly “tactical” on a sporting rifle.

I know I'm something of a North Korean public announcement on repeat play with Conetrol but all my rifles bar one are fitted with such if that’s any comfort?

Cheers

K
 
Thanks all for your help

Have managed to get in touch with an SD member with the same set up and he has put me right. Also may have to check a number of other things now but thats the way it goes!

Again thanks very much and will keep you posted on the outcome.
 
I cannot believe the mutilationthat some memebrs are advising to be carried out on a perfectly good rifle.

As mentioned Millet rings are crap and made of monkey metal not steel. Yes I tried some and threw them in the scrap bin total waste of time and money IMHO.

Sorry but I am also failing to see the need for 30mm scope tubes. yes I "KNOW" they are the must have fad but in reality what advantages do they actually give?

As to the confusion over measurements of the dovetails that is surely because people measure them in different places, some measure at the bottom of the dovetail and others at the top. A old box of P-H rings I have here says the dovetails is 19.5mm and they will fit onto my ZKK 601 IF it remove the recoil stud. I use Hilver steel rings on mine and have two sets for it, was three but I filed the recoil and location lug off one set to use them on a BSA Majestic.

Lynx/B-Square still make the rings for the ZKK and CZ550 as I understand it.

I do not believe in adding a rail as not only does it raise height but also adds a second unnecessary layer of tolerances so doubles the potential issues.

Oh yes the rear standing blade for the rear iron sight just drifts out and back in should one wish to re-fit it. No hardship there.

If you were closer I would loan you a scope with rings to try on the rifle.
 
Chris you asked about Sportsmatch, well some people rubbish them (Brithunter for instance) but I have had a couple of sets on a few rifles and they served me well, and I would have no reservation in using them again on a lightly recoiling rifle like the .243win you have. If fact until I could locate a set of quick release mounts for my 8x57 double I used a set of Sportsmatch to hold a heavy scope in place for some 18 months and they did the job well with no problems whatsoever.

Another cheapish option are the steel Hilver mounts that can be obtained from the optics warehouse. These do a very good job and I had a set of these on a Brno .222rem rifle some years ago.
 
Chris you asked about Sportsmatch, well some people rubbish them (Brithunter for instance) but I have had a couple of sets on a few rifles and they served me well, and I would have no reservation in using them again on a lightly recoiling rifle like the .243win you have. If fact until I could locate a set of quick release mounts for my 8x57 double I used a set of Sportsmatch to hold a heavy scope in place for some 18 months and they did the job well with no problems whatsoever.

I usually put in an appearance about now to suggest Sportsmatch when folk are offering someone else advice on spending more money than is necessary on 'scope mounts.

The Sportsmatch link's below - they're only about £20 or so. They work on CZ's just as well as Tikka's & I have them on .270, .308, and 7mm RM.

Scope mounts and rings for Tikka / CZ

Mounting a scope on a Tikka 595
 
Back
Top