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Thread: Stupid question time again!

  1. #1

    Stupid question time again!

    Sorry!
    So, I know that the minimum permitted energy for a deer legal rifle/bullet is 1700 ft/lbs - AT THE MUZZLE - but is there a minimum permitted energy at the POI? If so, what is it?

    I am fully aware that different bullets will retain different amounts of power at different ranges, depending on bullet weight, initial velocity etc.

    I was reading an article by Chuck Hawkes, and it seems that the convention ofopinion (in America at least) is that a bullet should hit a deer sized animal with around 800 ft/lb to ensure a kill, is the thinking the same over here?

  2. #2
    I think in the UK the assumption is made that Deer stalkers shoot their quarry at sensible ranges at which this wouldn't be an issue!

  3. #3
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teabag_46 View Post
    I was reading an article by Chuck Hawkes, and it seems that the convention ofopinion (in America at least) is that a bullet should hit a deer sized animal with around 800 ft/lb to ensure a kill, is the thinking the same over here?
    If that were true then surely bow hunting should be illegal if only on grounds of being humane.
    Hard hat time
    “Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”........Dalai Lama

  4. #4
    ....at 275 meters an 85grain bullet from a .243 which is just over 1700ft lb at the muzzle will still retain about 810 ft lb. I'm not really aware of the theories that you refer to but I think it would largely depend on the bullet you are using as terminal ballistics varies quite a lot.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by teyhan1 View Post
    If that were true then surely bow hunting should be illegal if only on grounds of being humane.
    Hard hat time
    Bowhunting does not rely on energy to kill the beast but massive haemorrhage caused by the arrows broadhead from a correctly placed shot.

    Ian.

  6. #6
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
    Bowhunting does not rely on energy to kill the beast but massive haemorrhage caused by the arrows broadhead from a correctly placed shot.

    Ian.
    And so does a bullet at a lot less than 800ft/lbs of energy. Energy does not kill the animal, internal bleeding does
    “Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”........Dalai Lama

  7. #7
    What is a "deer sized animal"?
    Most Nth Americans would no doubt be meaning a whitetail, but there is a large variation in size between the 38 or 16 sub species (depending on if your a splitter or a lumper).
    Then there is the size of the fight in the animal, a chital for example is slightly smaller than a fallow, but can absorb twice as much punishment from a slightly misplaced shot. Although from the same genus a red stag is much tougher kilo per kilo than an elk/wapiti. Size/weight to energy is far from an absolute, when comparing different species & even sub species.

    ​Cheers Sharkey

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by teyhan1 View Post
    And so does a bullet at a lot less than 800ft/lbs of energy. Energy does not kill the animal, internal bleeding does
    Agreed teyhan, and bowhunting is totally humane, however a badly placed broadhead will be as catastrophic as a badly placed bullet regardless of energy.

    Ian.

  9. #9
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    We are in agreement Ian, a rare thing on SD nowadays. Lets have a hug
    “Man surprised me most about humanity. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”........Dalai Lama

  10. #10
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    I was reading an article by Chuck Hawkes....
    Hmm! I'd be MORE likely to consider any such article, on shooting, as wise and useful knowledge if the OP had begun with "I was reading an article by Mystic Meg...."

    I've read quite a few Chuck Hawks articles..they seem to head up on a lot of search engines..and a lot of what I've read is nonsense.

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