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Thread: GWP epilepsy

  1. #1

    GWP epilepsy

    This is the Pedigree line of my GWP, She has epilepsy. The breeder 'Thar' has been uncontactable for over a year. I have posted this to highlight breeding lines that have Epilepsy. Buy A GWP from these lines at your own risk.


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  2. #2
    Have you spoken to Chris Gray? really till you know if others from the same litter are affected it is hard to say whether it is breeding or extremely bad luck. From that pedigree it looks like a well bred litter without a lot of the inbreeding that GWP's in the uk have been affected by. Epilepsy being complex as an issue people still can't say for definite how inherited it is as a condition or not if you look in people there are lots of factors that can come into play like issues during birth and injuries sustained. None of which helps you and the breeder really should have been more interested

  3. #3

    GWP epilespy

    I think you are jumping the gun here and blaming it on something you have not researched fully. To suggest it is the line that is at fault would suggest that you have investigated further back into the line, including the Danish imports. I would imagine that it would also show up in others from previous generations. Is this the case? Or has it just surfaced in your bitch, as can happen, and is a case of bad luck.
    I have a bitch from this litter. From a very early age she has shown an almost insatiable desire to work, and no physical problems at all, unlike your bitch. I regularly see 4 others from this litter and non of them have shown any issues at all. They are all working well and are healthy.
    I also doubt very much that Thar has been uncontactable.....he's quite the opposite.

  4. #4
    I would also suggest you look up and speak to Rory Major, who trains and runs the Bryantscroft line.

    Unfortunately as Norseman says, it could be just bad luck, I know of another line that has successfully bred 6 litters from the same sire, 1 pup from 1 litter developed epilepsy, no other cases known or reported.

    I wouldn't write off a complete line just yet.

    Good Luck.

  5. #5
    Hi Wagg, understand your p***** mate, but don't blame the lineage but i would definatley bring it to the breeders attention, If hes honorable he'll want to know, unfortunately we all know there's no guarantees.
    I've checked the line and to me all looks ok, if you check some cases of epilepsy it states that in normal litters its a 10,000 to 1 chance, so really could be just bad luck, good luck mate.
    Grezzer

  6. #6
    Well done Wag for sharing this information, people don't consider epilepsy as a major concern when choosing to breed, like they might, say, hip scores.

    There are certain well known lines and key dogs in their linage that have been known to throw epilepsy. Some lines have even ceased breeding.

    Perhaps your dog is that 1 in 10,000 and so your unlucky, but at least you have drawn a light on a problem.

    Surely it would be nice to hear from the breeder. If I were you I think my next port of call might be Rory Major and Chris Gray.

    Sam

  7. #7
    I think youre being a bit harsh on this just now, I know the breeder of this GWP and he would not withhold information of any kind regarding his litters. And he certainly wouldnt have you over for the sake of money, its not his style, known him for years and can/will vouch for him. Also, if you've tried to contacted him he wouldn't ignore you, he'd be only to willing to hear you out.
    I know of several people with dogs from the litters and to my knowledge there are no issues.

  8. #8
    I think you will find both those lines are excellent. The complete Viking is in many good pedigrees. Rory Major and Chris Gray no there stuff and certainly are not puppy farms, infact both breeders do there best to promote and maintain the breed.

  9. #9
    Wag wot age is ur dog?

    In fact i'm guessing ur's is about 4 or 5 and out off his first litter I have a pup out the same bitch (possibly same litter?) and have no prob's, cracking dog really. (Mine is just gone 2 but the pedigree doesn't look familar and my dogs prefix first name is different to yours, althou it was sired by a Bryanscroft sire) I also know Thar and he has kept a pup from the same litter as mine.
    Do u really think he is going to bred a pup for himself knowing about epilipsy in the line. I know he took advise from Chris before selecting the sire, and chris is very well thought off and well known in trialling circles and will have seen/know off most of the decent dogs in uk
    The mother is a cracking bitch with a really nice size and a good temperment, i also know 3 other dogs from the bitches (mothers litter) litter, all healthy and good working dogs, I also know 3 off the grand sires/dams off this litter all healthy with no sign off epipsy. Wot more can u do?

    U should probably speak to either Rory or Chris and let them know of the problem, possibly they will know off other problems in the lines and isolate the carriers, althou i'm pretty sure not heard off any coming from chris's lines

    U just have to do ur homework and speak to as many folk as possible, I know off 1 dog which is getting studded out the now who sired 1 litter with all 9 pup's with undershot jaws and quite a few heart murmors, and another litter had a couple undershot as well as heart murmur's. Not sure if it is still studding but it shouldn't be!
    There are not that many decent Gwp's in the UK really and so bloodlines can be closely related to each other. There will also be very few dogs not related to those lines possibly 2 off the best working lines in UK

    Ps Thar is busy with other things the now, if ur still trying to contact him pm me, but very unlike Thar not to be in touch if u really have been trying to contact him for over a year
    Last edited by countrryboy; 31-05-2013 at 16:20.

  10. #10
    Hi Wag

    I have been on holiday abroad and only got home yesterday, I don’t visit this site as often as I used to either due to other commitments hence why I have not responded sooner to this thread.

    I am not sure why you say I have been unable to be contactable? I have the same e-mail address and phone number as I had when you purchased the puppy. However I will not dwell on this, when I met you I thought you came across as a good guy for what that is worth.

    I think when you contacted me about the epilepsy you wanted to know if other puppies had issues and that your vet had advised that having the bitch spade may help? Please correct me if I am wrong?

    Let me say I am sorry to hear that you bitch has had these problems; I know you said she was turning into an outstanding working dog before this and personally I don’t have any problem with you highlighting the issue your pup has had. If I thought for any minute there was going to be a problem with any of the pups I wouldn’t have breed from my bitch. My primary concern was to keep a pup back from my bitch Igg for myself as this was my last chance to have a litter from her due to her age. 7 of the pups went to people who had seen the bitch work. I researched and took advice from some of the most respected GWP breeders in the country to which dog to cover my bitch with. She had a previous litter which had no signs of epilepsy, I had the bitch hip tested, check by my vet who has experienced with working dogs and is a deer stalker himself. She was also checked over by an A Class Danish Field trialling judge when he was over in Scotland stalking he checked the dog and the pedigree, and had no concerns with me breeding from her. I don’t know what I could have done more to ensure that I in the first instant and subsequently anybody else got a healthy pup.

    I have spoken to all the other owners bar one who have had a pup out of that litter and none have had any problems. As others have said I think it is important that you contact Chris and Rory they will have knowledge of far more of the dogs in each of their lines than I ever will, they both have excellent reputations and I am sure would not breed from any dogs if there were any hereditary issues.

    Is it definitely epilepsy? Or fits? I only ask as I know of fits in humans which have been diagnosed as epilepsy but were later found to be caused by benign brain tumour which had been present since birth. A CT/MRI scan would be needed. Epilepsy can be controlled with medication but I would guess you concern would be for other dogs not to suffer from this?

    If you need any contact details for Chris or Rory then PM/e-mail me.

    Best regards

    Tahr

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