Nature Park UK.

NP UK

Hmmmm,should give us a few new species,think il apply for that 30-378 ive always wanted ;)

cheers HORNET
 
Wonder if this guy has been yakking with the MFI feller up in Scotland,?I reckon if this scheme were to get off the ground in my lifetime, there would be increased opportunities while lamping! :lol:
 
I see the DCS has given them there support now that doesn't surprise me big banner at the bottom of the page that's the same folk trying to get rid of alien species and not doing a good job of it. :lol: :lol: Public money going to stupid ideas lets give the money were its needed.
eg housing poverty soldiers education the list goes on some fakers have more money than sence.
 
I'm sceptical as to whether any of those organisations across the bottom support this venture. I'd not be suprised if the bloke hasn't just ripped thier logo's off the web!
 
I was just about to make the same point 75...I can't imagine they would lend their names without long consultation.

The pics at the top of his page look like North American Moose and Bison not the correct European types (or am I just being picky?)

What these people don't seem to realise is that there just aren't enough trees here to support these species, you only have to look at Canadian Moose habitat...holy cow you've never seen so many trees. You need to start from the ground up on a 400+ year plan to restore woodland and only then think about the larger species. Yes it would be great but frankly it's just not realistic given the current diversity of ownership in the Highlands.
 
It seems a bit half baked really. He makes a big deal about the "Not for Profit" bit but hasn't adopted a sensible legal structure to maximise income/funding opportunities.

LBH it simply ain't gonna happen unless he gets a serious wedge of money in and even then the Alladale saga shows it will take decades before wild beasties are 'roaming free'.
 
Hello and thank you for discussing Naturepark UK on this forum. Whilst I just don’t have the time at present to engage in detailed online discussions let me please reply of some of the points raised:
There was no discussion with Paul Lister from Alladale. Alladale is envisioning an African Game Park style approach, which is great but will collapse should Mr Lister’s own money run out.
Naturepark UK has the central idea to try a different approach to conservation where the yardstick changes from “the right thing to do” to “increased species diversity” whilst, on a broad base, utilising recourses profitably.
The necessary fencing would be no different, possibly even less sophisticated, than what is already in use in many African game parks. Precedence is set manifold and at least nobody would be trying to keep elephants or rhinos locked in.
Naturally the sponsor list is different, after all e.g. the "Vasectomy Clinic" is my own business hence allowing me to channel funds into the project as advertising costs without being taxed twice! The “usual sponsors” would hardly be interested at this point where the project is in its kinder shoes, barely one month up and running on the net. After all if one million people ring “phone to donate £1” there would be £720000 revenue for the project. Nobody is hurt by the £1 but the sum of things looks rather different. Similarly so with small scale sponsors; initially people and businesses who feel they want to spare £100 purely because they like the idea, not because they have a specific business activity that would automatically drive them into the project’s direction. Just think if there is a list of 100 £100 sponsors! At this point the “usual” supporters from industry will obviously be far keener to be associated with the project than now.
I fully accept the criticism regarding use of logos and hence have duly removed them until I can achieve formal approval for their use by the relevant organisations.
By no means do you need a 400 year plan if considering the reintroduction of wisent and elk. The wisent reintroduction project in Germany is scaled for a herd of about 25 animals for an area of around 10000 acres of mainly mixed woodland (http://www.wisente-rothaargebirge.de/). Having grown up in the area myself this definitely does not all consist of mature forest. Experience from Germany in the 1930ies as well as a comparison of growth rates of “native to Britain” soft and hard wood trees indicate that looking at a time span of 30 years if starting on barren land is still realistic. Obviously incorporating already existing forests would shorten the time span considerably. Alladale has already re-introduced elks!
Having looked at options like “charitable status” it quickly became apparent that a charity can not be the way forward for the presented project. The inherent legislative restrictions would be prohibitive. Indemnifying against the misappropriation of funds even in the event of project failure is all I can offer, and even so I have no riches of my own to pour into the idea I should still have enough personal life span to give the idea a go.
Please remember that constructive feedback is certainly most welcome.
Jens
 
Hello Jens

Very nice to see you here. Whilst I have my doubts about how practicable your project is, I broadly support it's aims.

A couple of points I'd like your opinion on:

What's your view about introducing 'foreign' strains of these species? There will inevitably be a slight genetic/evolutionary difference in the (re)introduced species in comparison with what would originally have existed here...is this acceptable? Are we talking zoo or reintroduction?

Do you not think Scotland has become too much a 'wet desert'? I was out this morning looking at some very wet miserable deer and it crossed my mind that the climate, especially here in the west, is just too wet for some species. (Jeez but it's miserable here today!!)
 
Hello Frax and thanks for your warm welcome. Cumbria was beautiful today, overcast but dry and a perfect day for the clays!
I know my project sounds rather ambitious but “God loves the tryer” and since I expect to roam planet earth for at least another 40 years I am still optimistic.
Describing Scotland as a wet desert is certainly accurate but after all the golf stream contributes to a temperate wet climate especially on the west coast. If locally certain species thrive then they obviously can accommodate for the climate. With regards to introducing formerly native species I think matters depend on three factors: reforestation, which species used to be around and current local climate after a degree of reforestation.
Paul Lister from Alladale describes his estate as a waste land since deforestation and overgrazing let to a total depletion of natural species diversity. Working on the basis that most of the Highlands were covered in Scottish pine, likewise most of Cumbria was covered in mixed broad leave forests, than the micro climate might be a bit different now and for species to be reintroduced one needs to assess matters after a degree of reforestation has created a new local environment.
Which species to look at mainly falls into two categories: formerly native and all together alien. The problem with formerly native species is that the local genetic strains are de facto extinct, hence we have to accept that all reintroductions are per se not the original thing. I am certainly not talking zoo since a key element of Naturepark UK is for all species to live naturally and fend for themselves, not being kept in small enclosures awaiting feeding time.
Alien species could be looked at as those which fit in without problems, those which fit in but, to avoid problems, another species needs to be brought in to keep them in check and those which jut don’t fit in.
Going back to Germany, near a place called Siegen in Westphalia where I grew up, they now have racoons and racoon dogs in large numbers in the wild and so far these have not had any noteworthy environmental impact on native species.
Keeping an alien species in check might be more difficult since matters can go seriously wrong; as seen in Australia where the poisonous Cane Toads from Hawaii, which were introduced to control Cane Beetles, are creating havoc amongst local wildlife. For Britain researchers are currently looking at exotic fungi and beetles in order to control the invasive Japanese knot weed.
The simple grey squirrel is most likely the best known example of an alien not fitting in and indeed destroying the native red squirrel with the virus they carry.
I hope my rambles clarify matters. Jens
 
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