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Thread: Open certificate application

  1. #1

    Open certificate application

    This week I'm adding a couple of calibres and applying for an open ticket. I've been on the phone to South Yorkshire firearms licensing and they've asked for land details etc as expected.

    They've also asked for two letters from FAC holders who have shot with me as evidence of "competent and responsible shooting". Is this normal?

    Jared

  2. #2
    Distinguished Member tartinjock's Avatar
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    All depends on the Area Force.

    I spoke to my previous Force about an Open Ticket, they refused, I then said something along the lines of, "Well, if the ground needs to be cleared by the Chief Constable etc etc, then If I have an unfortunate incident and shoot or kill someone, I'll direct their solicitor to your department, as the Chief Constable said that ground was cleared for that Caliber/Cartridge to be used, therefor, he is directly responsable".

    This obviously went down well, not. They said "I'm responsable", I then said, "Thank You. That was what I was after, knowone can be held responsable accept the person pulling the trigger, so what's the problem".

    They then said it was done on a time basis, I'd get it on the first renewal, looking for another excuse. I then said, "OK, I can go out twice a month just now, easily shoot 2+ deer, if I wished for 5 years, that's loads of experience shooting/stalking deer", he agreed. I then said, "I could go out once a year and shoot only one Prize Stag, is that enough experience?" he said no. I then said, "well, how can you monitor it?" He said "They Can't".

    The whole Open ticket think is a pain, I now have one (Northern Constabulary), they will issue an open ticket on the first successful application. I think it's all down to restricting FAC holders as much as they can, with out understanding the use of Sporting Rifles.

    I feel that they are asking for letters to shirk responsability of granting an open Ticket, the same as mentoring clauses on Tickets. They can and no doubt would come knocking on the door if something terrible happened. The ,"You wrote and said .......... Now look what's happened".

    Good Luck
    TJ

  3. #3
    I can see this from both sides especially as I have an open ticket

    The polices responsibility is to protect the public so a restricted ticket would be a good defence for them if a new shooter cocked up.

    Positioning the responsibility onto the shooter (i.e. open ticket) would then take them off the hook quite nicely (an obvious bonus).

    IMHO they have to try and strike a balance and the only measurable way of achieving this is a time period. Not infallable as in your example but the only reasonable option.

    Wait a while keep your nose clean and everbody is happy.

    Happy new year.

  4. #4
    Mine just came back 'open' without needing to ask

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by eldon
    The polices responsibility is to protect the public...
    I think the responsibility of the Police is to administer the Law, guided by the Home Office Guidance 2002. The difference is important: there are those who would argue that the public would be much safer is no-one had any nasty guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by eldon
    ...so a restricted ticket would be a good defence for them if a new shooter cocked up.
    I'm not sure it would, really.
    It is the responsibility of the Police to issue FACs only to people they are satisfied can be 'permitted to have the firearm(s)/ammunition in their possession without danger to the public safety or to the peace'. If they can demonstrate the grant was in those terms reasonable, they have nothing to defend. Any C-up would be the FAC-holder's responsibility in any case.

    Quote Originally Posted by eldon
    Positioning the responsibility onto the shooter (i.e. open ticket) would then take them off the hook quite nicely (an obvious bonus).
    As I mentioned, if they have done their bit in checking the FAC-holders suitability before grant, they are not really on a hook, are they? Any C-up is the FAC-holder's fault in any case.

    Quote Originally Posted by eldon
    IMHO they have to try and strike a balance and the only measurable way of achieving this is a time period. Not infallable as in your example but the only reasonable option.
    The HO Guidance 'recommends' territorial conditions for new applicants (apparently on the rather spurious basis of ensuring consitent practice across the country). However, if the Police have no reason to believe that the restrictions improve public safety in a particular case, I guess they needn't apply them

    Quote Originally Posted by eldon
    Wait a while keep your nose clean and everbody is happy.
    Sound advice, if you are actually happy with the restrictions; but if the restrictions are adversely affecting an FAC-holder's use of his rifles, it would be worth his asking, giving a polite and well-reasoned case, for the restriction to be lifted.

    Quote Originally Posted by eldon
    Happy new year.
    Absolutely; and to all readers!

  6. #6
    Just out of interest... do the two letters from FAC holders that you have been out shooting with need to be open ticket holders?
    Because if not it kinda makes a mockery of the whole thing

    Same with mentors, do they need to have open FAC? and what about caliber.... Can someone with open ticket for .22rf mentor someone with a full bore?

  7. #7
    Seeing as it is the police force in question that have decided to pass this particular piece of law, I think you should direct your question to them in the first instance, It's also obvious that the home office would be unable to help with your question, as they have clearly had nothing to do with this tomfoolery. 8)

  8. #8
    I cant wait until I get to my 5 years so that I can apply for an open licence..Its a real pain haivng to submit paperwork everytime I get new land.

  9. #9
    Have just put mine in for opening up with Thames Valley, local FEO is a good guy & is backing me so I hope all will be ok.

    Fingers crossed

    ATB
    Chris
    Life should be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving skidding in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO what a ride!

  10. #10
    How long have you been shooting for Chris? I know these things vary a lot between forces but I get the feeling that asking in the right manner makes a huge difference. If you just go in early on and say "can I have an open ticket" then the response is likely to be "no!" On the other hand if you say "would it be possible to remove the land restrictions from my FAC as they are preventing me from taking up the many good chances I have to stalk with more experienced people and therefore learn from them" then it looks better. To that you could also add "if you look at my ammunition usage it shows I get out shooting a lot and have gained a great deal of experience in the time I've had my FAC" and "the only way I feel I can improve my experience further from this point is to shoot new areas with other experienced and unrestricted FAC holders". You could also throw it in early and say "if you would like references from experienced shots who have been out with me on my ground I could happily supply some".

    That's the way I went about it, as well as offering up lots of new land. I got rimfire open in 9 months and my 6.5x55 after a year.

    Last of all, good luck with it. You seem like you know your stuff and I hope the police can see that too.

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