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Thread: THE BRITISH DEER SOCIETY - 50 YEARS of COMMON EFFORT

  1. #1

    THE BRITISH DEER SOCIETY - 50 YEARS of COMMON EFFORT

    Perhaps its just me but of late I note a certain desperation in debate worthy subject matter floating around SD so here is something to get us back on track. Popcorn optional:

    The assertion that caught my eye is to be found in Richard Prior's 50-year overview of the BDS as set out in the most recent journal and on the face of it correctly draws our attention to the Society's great success in harnessing the effort of those who's only interest was/is deer welfare born of a concern for this grossly maltreated animal and those with an allied interest that is the sporting opportunity this beautiful creature affords.

    So my question is just how successful has the BDS been in both managing and developing the "common effort" to the satisfaction of both sides that might otherwise be in conflict and is the balance all it could and should be?

    K
    Last edited by Klenchblaize; 16-07-2013 at 07:16.

  2. #2
    As at 14.15 there have been 71 views and no further comment. Enjoying the popcorn?

  3. #3
    And you went and spoilt it!

    Here is another bag for free:


    Cheers

    K

  4. #4

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Klenchblaize View Post
    Perhaps its just me but of late I note a certain desperation in debate worthy subject matter floating around SD so here is something to get us back on track. Popcorn optional:

    The assertion that caught my eye is to be found in Richard Prior's 50-year overview of the BDS as set out in the most recent journal and on the face of it correctly draws our attention to the Society's great success in harnessing the effort of those who's only interest was/is deer welfare born of a concern for this grossly maltreated animal and those with an allied interest that is the sporting opportunity this beautiful creature affords.

    So my question is just how successful has the BDS been in both managing and developing the "common effort" to the satisfaction of both sides that might otherwise be in conflict and is the balance all it could and should be?

    K
    OK... in for a penny !!!

    My view, is that the intentions of the BDS are good, and the values of deer welfare & management are sound. However, despite all the stories of over population in the press, the endless complaints of damage by farmers, and the scientific reports generated by endless research from our more learned, and academic members of society, charities, and organisations, you try getting permission on even the most modest land holding / farm / forestry, without being held to financial ransom, H&S requirements, qualification requirements, which seem to increase disproportionately to the average / common man`s, or individuals ability to accrue them......

    Looking through the glossy £6.00 per issue magazine, and the pictures of Sir this, Rt hon that etc, or established / veteran stalkers brigade, it does make you wonder whose benefit the BDS is run for. The deer, yes, without doubt, but working to a `common effort`, very doubtful - unless you are on the inner circle.

    There are people on here no doubt, who have little trouble picking up permissions for nothing, cheap as chips, modest sums, but then it also begs the question of how 1 person, maybe 2 people if good friends can manage 20 / 30 / 40 thousand acres of land properly and those people are out there.

    The `deer industry`, and it is exactly that, is thriving, but at whose expense / benefit ??? We hear stories that 750K of the national herd needs to be culled to stay at the same population, so either people are not managing deer on their permissions properly ( ie Does, Hinds etc, not just the medal heads ), and / or charging much moolah for the opportunity to cull them - which people cannot afford very often, the landowners are making a rod for their backs by not getting a qualified person in on their land because they are charging more than the average person can justify from their income, or the problem is not as bad as people are making out...... You cannot have it all ways.

    So is the BDS worthwhile. For the deer yes, and long may we have people concerned enough to put deer on a pedestal - as long as the deer are not turned in to `cash cows` as is the trend these days.... If there was more access to affordable stalking ( rather than the occasional vendor ) then more people would take up the offers, reducing the deer herds, and still putting money in to peoples pockets..... over a longer more managed and sustainable period. Otherwise we just end up on the same merry go round and nothing will change - until the Government wades in, issues all sorts of crap licenses that will give the holder carte blanche to blat anything and everything in a herd, when it could be avoided so much more easily...

    Well, my view anyway, and not sour grapes as I worked hard for my permissions, but it could be easier for all......

    All the best.

    Neil.

  6. #6
    Thanks for that Neil!

    Over the years I’ve tried very hard to avoid reference to the “Sir this, Rt hon that etc” target in my occasional dissatisfaction with the Society as it so easily gets misinterpreted as simply Class prejudice but there is no doubt it is something that exercises many. Of course the reality is not lost on me that until relatively recently who else would one expected to own great tracks of land, similarly proportioned county houses and deer parks!

    One of the challenges that must be a constant thorn in the Society’s side is that allied to the mantra that the Society is not nor will it become a “stalking club” but against a backdrop of a membership comprising what percentage of stalkers to deer watchers?

    K

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Klenchblaize View Post

    So my question is just how successful has the BDS been in both managing and developing the "common effort" to the satisfaction of both sides that might otherwise be in conflict and is the balance all it could and should be?



    K
    Ah yes, the very question that I have recently asked them in relation to wild deer on the Isle of Wight. atb Tim

  8. #8
    And my two pennies worth is that the BDS does a good job promoting the study and welfare of deer and I imagine that is the thrust of the 'common effort' theme. The allied interest of sporting opportunity isn't their remit, other than promoting humane and effective management for the welfare of the deer. I imagine a stalker, syndicate or landed owner who holds extensive stalking rights or permissions, and doesn't manage the numbers humanely or effectively to the detriment of deer welfare, would be roundly condemned by the Society.
    As for who the Society benefits, as far as I'm concerned, that would be me - and no, sad to say, I'm not a Knight, member of the Privy Council or the Lord Mayor of London. The latest glossy issue of Deer (free to members) has 60 pages and a further 11 pages replicating the very first issue of Deer News dated July 1963 - in itself an fascinating read. It has some interesting information on SBV in British Deer, a timely reminder of the dangers to our deer from Chronic Wasting Disease, a good article that puts the misquoted UEA research in clear context and entirely refutes the tosh reported about the need to cull 750,000 animals a year, another piece on genetic diversity in Roe.... Essentially, lots of info about deer.
    As a measure of how stalking really doesn't predominate, in a magazine laden with excellent deer images there are precisely 18 images of dead deer,and of those 13 are in advertisements for chillers, rifles etc. One image is used to illustrate a piece on RTCs, one is in a picture of Edgar Barclay stalking in 1938, one illustrates a new gizmo to hang carcasses from a tail lift hatch, another shows a roe harness in use and finally one taken at a gralloch demo for Northern Ireland branch.
    I don't see that the BDS has any interest in "both managing and developing the "common effort" to the satisfaction of both sides" as the Society simply isn't in the business of 'satisfying' stalking interests.

    I don't like popcorn - is there a Kia-Ora smiley?

  9. #9
    I used the term "sporting opportunity" as that, or something very close to it, was RP's terminology in the context of the Society's inception. Clearly that has since morphed into "humane and effective (deer) management" but to suggest "the Society simply isn't in the business of 'satisfying' stalking interests" implies the two are wholly separate which is a debate in its own right if you mean other than facilitating stalking opportunity?

    K

  10. #10
    the only stalking interest they have is looking after the inner circle.

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