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Thread: Variation question

  1. #1

    Variation question

    I am thinking of putting in a variation to add a .308 for use on larger deer species and possibly boar.

    My question is: do I need to have a confirmed booking to stalk one of the above in order to be granted the variation or can I just say that I will be using the rifle on paid stalks which are advertised in sporting publications and I will book once I have the rifle etc?

    A bit of background which may help, I have held a section one for over 12 years with a full bore rifle. I have DSC1. I have land to zero it on but no large deer present. The reason I do not want to make a booking now is the rifle I want has a long lead time. I may also see a second hand one in the meantime.

    Last, as a variation costs money, I may ask for a .223 dedicated night fox set up. I can't see this as being a problem but comments welcome.

    The authority is Cheshire.

  2. #2
    depends where you are. in scotland I have friends who have been granted authority for larger calibres simply because they go stalking with me for reds now and again.

    I know of others who've almost had their FAC retracted because they no longer have any land over which they have permission.

    boar-wise. I applied for a boar condition and associated calibre, and was told that I did not have boar on my ground, and so no hope in hell and that paid shooting for boar wasn't good enough to justify a boar gun itself...which oddly enough goes against what they normally do in Scotland, but hey ho.

    so I justified the same calibre based on needing it for reds,,which WAS fine..and when I asked about using it for boar, they said that was just fine, even though not on my ticket, as boar are deemed lesser species to reds....

    so essentially, and I got this in writing, the largest or grandest species a calibre is granted for, means it can be used for anything of a lesser species without it being on the certificate.

    example, my certificate for .222 says deer and fox, but can be used for vermin too (as lesser than deer and fox)
    my .243 says 'deer', but I had confirmed I can also use for fox, AND for vermin,,as lesser than deer
    my 30-06 says 'deer', but I had confirmed I can use for fox, vermin and boar, as all lesser species.


    I also asked if this was not the same as AOLQ which I had requested (and had declined), and they say 'no', AOLQ is not granted in Scotland, and that would allow me to use my firearms for species not suitable..I said, if I an use my largest calibre for anything 'lesser' than it's main purpose, isn't that the same thing?..apparently no, it seems if I had AOLQ, I could use my .222 for larger game than suitable..I argued that was illegal..good point..eeeeehhhhhhh...DOH!

    I am not convinced one hand knows exacly what the other is doing sometimes
    Last edited by PKL; 05-08-2013 at 12:38.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PKL View Post
    depends where you are. in scotland I have friends who have been granted authority for larger calibres simply because they go stalking with me for reds now and again.

    I know of others who've almost had their FAC retracted because they no longer have any land over which they have permission.

    boar-wise. I applied for a boar condition and associated calibre, and was told that I did not have boar on my ground, and so no hope in hell and that paid shooting for boar wasn't good enough to justify a boar gun itself...which oddly enough goes against what they normally do in Scotland, but hey ho.

    so I justified the same calibre based on needing it for reds,,which WAS fine..and when I asked about using it for boar, they said that was just fine, even though not on my ticket, as boar are deemed lesser species to reds....

    so essentially, and I got this in writing, the largest or grandest species a calibre is granted for, means it can be used for anything of a lesser species without it being on the certificate.

    example, my certificate for .222 says deer and fox, but can be used for vermin too (as lesser than deer and fox)
    my .243 says 'deer', but I had confirmed I can also use for fox, AND for vermin,,as lesser than deer
    my 30-06 says 'deer', but I had confirmed I can use for fox, vermin and boar, as all lesser species.


    I also asked if this was not the same as AOLQ which I had requested (and had declined), and they say 'no', AOLQ is not granted in Scotland, and that would allow me to use my firearms for species not suitable..I said, if I an use my largest calibre for anything 'lesser' than it's main purpose, isn't that the same thing?..apparently no, it seems if I had AOLQ, I could use my .222 for larger game than suitable..I argued that was illegal..good point..eeeeehhhhhhh...DOH!

    I am not convinced one hand knows exacly what the other is doing sometimes
    blimey what a cluster ****, can't they just put the AOLQ on the larger cal and not the .222
    its about time they understood what they were talking about in these departments it would save a fortune.
    to the op put in for the 308 on AOLQ and that covers everything and saves any hassle going back to ask for other species later, what if you get an invite for goat or anything else that pops up but really you need good reason so having been on paid outings and or bookings for the future ,atb wayne
    i forgot to ask do you have deer on your ground that you use as i would put in for the 308 on that ground with the added red stalking on paid days.
    Last edited by mereside; 05-08-2013 at 12:57.

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  4. #4
    Bob. In most police areas in England and Wales, you would need to produce evidence of a confirmed booking to establish 'good reason' for acquiring the .308.
    Ask for AOLQ too, so that Boar are included without being specifically mentioned. The dedicated night kit should be sufficient for the granting of the .223 authority mentioned. Lots of shooters have separate day and night set-ups in the same or similar calibre, expensive though.

  5. #5
    Bob,

    I would suggest you go on a couple of accompanied stalks with a guide and book a couple more. Use an estate rifle while you are waiting for yours.
    Then you just put that detail on your FAC application. Explain what you are doing to the Guide so he's fully informed and in agreement.

    Regarding the .223 that sounds sensible. I'm assuming you have land where you can shoot fox.

    Personally I'd put a couple more on the Application to give you some spare slots and in time allow yourself some free one for one variations, say FAC Air .22 for vermin, .243 for deer, .303 target (if you are a member of a rifle club)

    Hope this helps

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Naseby View Post
    Bob,

    I would suggest you go on a couple of accompanied stalks with a guide and book a couple more. Use an estate rifle while you are waiting for yours.
    Then you just put that detail on your FAC application. Explain what you are doing to the Guide so he's fully informed and in agreement.

    Regarding the .223 that sounds sensible. I'm assuming you have land where you can shoot fox.

    Personally I'd put a couple more on the Application to give you some spare slots and in time allow yourself some free one for one variations, say FAC Air .22 for vermin, .243 for deer, .303 target (if you are a member of a rifle club)

    Hope this helps
    Thanks.

    I already have a couple of .22s and a .243 (12 plus years). I do not think I will have any difficulty with the .308 if I produce a receipt for a booking. I just don't see why, given I have DSC1 and lots of stalking parafinalia, I have to prove that I have a booking prior to getting the rifle.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Bob View Post
    Thanks.

    I already have a couple of .22s and a .243 (12 plus years). I do not think I will have any difficulty with the .308 if I produce a receipt for a booking. I just don't see why, given I have DSC1 and lots of stalking parafinalia, I have to prove that I have a booking prior to getting the rifle.
    they are afraid people stockpile for the sake of them finding it fun, and then having their house broken into meaning the damage is greater than need be, ie. more weapons in the wrong hands.

    ..all b*llocks of course.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Bob View Post
    Thanks.

    I already have a couple of .22s and a .243 (12 plus years). I do not think I will have any difficulty with the .308 if I produce a receipt for a booking. I just don't see why, given I have DSC1 and lots of stalking parafinalia, I have to prove that I have a booking prior to getting the rifle.

    Assuming you do stalk with the .243...i dont see why you need to show a booking etc,just say you want one for stalking,you must have an open cert and dsc1 what more would you need,give them a call and ask...

  9. #9
    do's cheshire give AOLQ if so just request it for all rifles, your land should be good enough, if thay kick up book a stalk get a letter from the outfit and send it in this would be a good to go in essex no worrys , and as there is no min cal for deer why can't you have a 308 for small deer ? i would also request an open cert if you have't already after 12 yrs and your own land.
    good luck feller

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Bob View Post
    Thanks.

    I already have a couple of .22s and a .243 (12 plus years). I do not think I will have any difficulty with the .308 if I produce a receipt for a booking. I just don't see why, given I have DSC1 and lots of stalking parafinalia, I have to prove that I have a booking prior to getting the rifle.
    Yes inclined to agree, at times the system seems a bit loopy doesn't it?

    Best of luck with it anyway

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