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Thread: Advice req'd on moderator

  1. #1

    Advice req'd on moderator

    A friend has recently purchased a moderator and having paid cash to the seller (private) transaction, promptly produced his certificate for the usual. Only at this point was he told that the mod was not on ticket and so no paperwork req'd.What is the best way for the mod to be placed on his ticket, which has an open slot for a mod in 30cal.

  2. #2
    An interesting situation. According to the BASC Firearms Dept's official opinion on the classification of moderators given here https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/57439-Classification-of-sound-moderators
    it would be most unusual for a moderator capable of being used on a .30cal centrefire rifle to be held without FAC authority.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Deerless View Post
    A friend has recently purchased a moderator and having paid cash to the seller (private) transaction, promptly produced his certificate for the usual. Only at this point was he told that the mod was not on ticket and so no paperwork req'd.What is the best way for the mod to be placed on his ticket, which has an open slot for a mod in 30cal.
    Come on. Another post that's convinced me that we're definitely in the silly season.

    Whether a cash sale bargain or not, demand a receipt and the required entry on your FAC - or your money back. The proper paperwork is an obligation on both parties, which means YOU.

    What happens if you're found with it, and the vendor denies he supplied it? Why take the risk?
    If I'm going to be accused of it then it's just as well I did it.

  4. #4
    This kind of situation is one reason my I persisit in my view that a moderator is not subject to S1 control unless, as it says in the Firearms Act, it actually currently is an accessory to a S1 firearm: rather than just that it might be used as an accessory to such a firearm. It seems to me that most moderators in the country might by virture of their design possibly be used on S1 firearms - for decent quality airgun mods are designed to work with airgun running at more than 12ftlb, and any moderator designed for a S2 shotgun will of course work with a shotgun which becuase of barrel length, or removability of magazine, be controlled under S1. But I digress...Even the BASC Firearms Dept (who disagree strongly with my view of this) statement would seem to allow that if the vendor had been using it on a non-S1 airgun or shotgun then it would probably not be subject to S1 control - as they state in their conclusion in that document (my emphasis):
    Quote Originally Posted by BASC Firearms Dept View Post
    The status of sound moderators​ (Firearms Act 1968)...
    11.6 Conclusion: s57(1)(c) items are included in the definition of “firearm” and are not exempt by s1(3); accordingly they remain subject to s1 certificate control. There can be no uniformity of approach with respect to moderators which are of themselves s1 firearms and those which are not; mainly due to exempt accessories for ‘air weapons’ and s2 shotguns and the potential for some of those items to be used on s1 firearms as well. Each case must be determined on its merits with regard to the wording of s57(1)(c) and the circumstances in which the moderator is found or required.

    BASC Firearms Department 2013
    Under such circumstances, the position seems to me the same as that of a man who gets variation to allow him to use a moderator on his .22LR and buys a SAK mod that the vendor has been using on his airgun.
    I suspect under such a circumstance, the FAC-holding purchaser would just enter a 'one no name/no number moderator' onto his own FAC - just as he would if he'd manufactured his own moderator.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalua View Post
    This kind of situation is one reason my I persisit in my view that a moderator is not subject to S1 control unless, as it says in the Firearms Act, it actually currently is an accessory to a S1 firearm: rather than just that it might be used as an accessory to such a firearm. It seems to me that most moderators in the country might by virture of their design possibly be used on S1 firearms - for decent quality airgun mods are designed to work with airgun running at more than 12ftlb, and any moderator designed for a S2 shotgun will of course work with a shotgun which becuase of barrel length, or removability of magazine, be controlled under S1. But I digress...Even the BASC Firearms Dept (who disagree strongly with my view of this) statement would seem to allow that if the vendor had been using it on a non-S1 airgun or shotgun then it would probably not be subject to S1 control - as they state in their conclusion in that document (my emphasis):


    Under such circumstances, the position seems to me the same as that of a man who gets variation to allow him to use a moderator on his .22LR and buys a SAK mod that the vendor has been using on his airgun.
    I suspect under such a circumstance, the FAC-holding purchaser would just enter a 'one no name/no number moderator' onto his own FAC - just as he would if he'd manufactured his own moderator.
    Well .... these musings are all very interesting, but they don't answer the OP's question.

    We all know an RFD can supply a moderator suitable for an air-rifle, which you can then screw onto your .22rf without prior authorisation.

    But this is a different situation which is clear cut.

    It's a .30 Cal. Section 1 commercial moderator (which isn't 'home made' .... not too many of these about!) for which the buyer has a slot. He needs an entry fom the seller, who has to enter his 'Authority to Possess' such an article (FAC or RFD No.) - rather like an ammunition or firearm transaction.
    If I'm going to be accused of it then it's just as well I did it.

  6. #6
    Sounds like there's too much joined-up thinking required, and personally I'd be asking for my money back then buy a mod from an RFD...

    I want my FAC to be 100% - no exceptions
    Sako 75 6.5x55mm-Z6i 3-18x50. MauserM12 .308-SIII 6-24x50. Beretta 690 III Field 12b.
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life."
    Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by I. Farticus View Post
    Sounds like there's too much joined-up thinking required, and personally I'd be asking for my money back then buy a mod from an RFD...

    I want my FAC to be 100% - no exceptions
    ​This.....

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinistral View Post
    We all know an RFD can supply a moderator suitable for an air-rifle, which you can then screw onto your .22rf without prior authorisation.
    Well, you could - but would you not be breaking the law as you would then be in possesion of a sound-moderating accessory to a S1 firearm?

    My opinion (which which the BASC Firearms Dept disagrees) is that unless the moderator is fitted to a S1 firearm, it is not an accessory to an S1 firearm and therefore not subject to control under the Firearms Act.
    If this were true, a man with a lathe who makes a .30cal c/f mod and possess it is would not be acting unlawfully.
    If that is correct, then anyone owning a .30cal c/f mod is not acting unlawfully (since a thing that could be used as a .30cal c/f/ mod remains just that regardless of the person possessing it): and they continue within the law until they make that moderator an accessory to a S1 firearm by fitting it onto one.

    My contention then is that unlike a firearm or ammunition (which are by their very nature restricted by the Firearms Act), a moderator is restricted under S1 of the Firearms Act only by virtue of its actually and currently being an accessory to a S1 Firearm.

    I accept that this might not be correct, and must point out again that BASC Firearms Dept are firmly of the view that I am not correct.
    Last edited by Dalua; 21-08-2013 at 14:33.

  9. #9
    pleased its a friend and not you

    give it back


    mods seem to cause a lot of probs
    I had a friend who had problems once over a moderator
    caused a lot of stress and he likes to be 100% correct

    .what are they? an expensively engineered paperweight or pencil holder

    now that it is almost mandatory to have one because of Health and Safety
    its time they were de regulated for certificate holders , ie you have a ticket for a firearm AND moderator(s) (if wanted or reqd)
    and if you want to try a different one... OK..if you can afford it


  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalua View Post
    My opinion (which which the BASC Firearms Dept disagrees) is that unless the moderator is fitted to a S1 firearm, it is not an accessory to an S1 firearm and therefore not subject to control under the Firearms Act.

    My contention then is that unlike a firearm or ammunition (which are by their very nature restricted by the Firearms Act), a moderator is restricted under S1 of the Firearms Act only by virtue of its actually and currently being an accessory to a S1 Firearm.
    Dalua,

    I understand your theory.... very adroit. The status of moderators is ambivalent, and the earlier posts reflect a lot of frustration with this. I've had no direct experience of this, as I don't (& won't) use mods at all although the nice FLD staff licensed this ages ago.

    However, harmless lump of metal or not, legally they've acquired most of the characteristics of 'firearms'. You can for instance trade in an unused moderator slot for a firearm as a free Variation without increasing the number of firearms held........ although in practice you have acquired an extra one.
    That's another logical conundrum to ponder.
    If I'm going to be accused of it then it's just as well I did it.

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