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Thread: Avon and Somerset will not allow mentoring

  1. #1

    Avon and Somerset will not allow mentoring

    My son has just applied for a coterminous SGC and FAC. FAC for .22lr which should not be an issue. I thought it might be appropriate to get him to add .223, in that he could use my .233, I could mentor him on the use of Centre fire for vermin/fox control. I have an open ticket

    A@S told me verbally that they had stopped the mentoring condition several months ago and to be granted a C/F (not deer calibre!!!) then he would either have to do an approved course or provide evidence of military training.

    As my .223 is also conditioned for legal deer species makes me wonder what a deer calibre is (they actually mean 6mm/.243 and above) and would for this require a DSC L 1. I didn't press the point at the time but am lead to believe A@S are being a bit over zealous.

    Any comments?


  2. #2
    talk to basc think i remember something about mentoring in one of the mag issues are thay saying he must do the dcs1! and or join a paper shooting club , did't know this was a requied under the firearms act ,and did't we have a lad on here who had done the dsc1 and jumped over hot fire's but still could't get his mentor removed or something !! sorry someone will be able to help drop david from basc a line on this site or call basc direct.
    as you say more than over zealous sounds like a home rule put in place by a group small minded folks, mentoring is far better than paper punching if done by another hunter and as it would be by his dad, well no better man than to teach your son ,you don't have to be so nice if he cocks up lol been that way since the bow and arrow !
    atb hope you get it sorted out

  3. #3
    I wonder whether it actually matters that they've decided that they've 'stopped mentoring condtions'? Indeed, it might be a good thing, since just as 'mentoring conditions' are a farcical nuisance, so plain mentoring is a most useful and fulfilling way for an experience FAC-holder to support and inexperienced one, and for an inexperienced on to learn.

    The bit that they told you verbally about the 'approved course' or 'military training' doesn't sound at all reasonable as a blanket policy. It might be best to forget about it

    This sounds like a case where a letter to the FEO/FLD Manager explaining, with other pertinent detail, your and your son's intentions with respect to adding the .223 to son's FAC, and that you'll be supervising him initially to make sure he's competant in both safety and animal welfare. A letter will give them a chance to have a proper think about what you're proposing, and should elicit a written reply which might be more in keeping with what you're after that the verbal response so far.

    As suggested by Paul, run it past your organisation, if you're in one.
    Last edited by Dalua; 27-08-2013 at 10:38.

  4. #4
    This is the downside of the ACPO and BASC's latest meeting, basically the outcome of that and the new recommendation is where the new applicant doesn't have experience the advice is to send them on a course rather than mentoring, apparently its a big step forward but personally I do wonder.
    The only option I can see is depending on his age and your setup to get him some experience and try and argue it from that angle

  5. #5
    Strange then that some, nay most forces discount H.M. trained personnel's experience, for the purposes of a sporting fac. Talk about the tail wagging the dog?
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  6. #6
    Ask for it in writing, their policy WRT CF authorisation.

    When I was seeking a CF my initial consideration was for a 223, they said I had to do a CF course at W-S-M Locking for 150.

    So I did DSC1 as I would have done both to get a deer cal rifle.
    Last edited by jack; 27-08-2013 at 18:02.

  7. #7
    13.26 It is desirable that new applicants should have some previous experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles. Experience is neither cartridge nor ammunition type exclusive. It may include the shooting of any quarry species. The aspect that police are looking to be satisfied about is the competency of the applicant to take a safe shot every time. The shooting of any quarry requires a safe backstop for the shot, and such experience is transferable between quarry species.

    If you are not able to show previous experience then I would expect the application will be refused beause you have not met the basic suitability test in respect of this. So you are either suitable or you are not. Some police forces, too weak to make a direct decision, decided to introduce mentoring in which they would grant a certificate if you had a mentor to show you the basics. At that stage you are still unsuitable but some forces granted the certificate blindly hoping you would take up the mentoring and not go off shooting yourself. A right state of affairs.
    So in a nutshell, whether you are with a mentor or not, you do not meet the requirements unless you can show/prove previous experience for rim fire and centre fire rifles.

  8. #8
    When did this mentoring come about ? Or is it just in England ? I got my fac when I was 20 no probelms at all for a.222 for deer and fox control


  9. #9
    I'm not sure if it's true, but I've been told that I am the last person to be allowed to follow the mentored route in Avon & Somerset.
    Should I get a special certificate from the police when I finish ?


  10. #10
    My lad has just turned 18 and has been coming out shooting/stalkinf/fox shooting with me for many years. He has his own air rifle and has done weapon training with cadets. The law says he can't use a FA unless he has a certificate but how can he get legal experience with such if they wont issue him with a suitable certificate?

    Law is mad, who better to teach him than the person who owns the rifle and has an open certificate?


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